What’s Missing From the Body Image Conversation With Rachel Tuchman, LMHC

In this episode, I’m joined by therapist Rachel Tuchman to explore what’s often missing from the body image conversation.

We talk about why body complaints are so rarely just about appearance, and how stress, grief, nervous system overwhelm, and life transitions all shape the way we experience our bodies. We also discuss a gap that still exists in many therapy spaces when it comes to addressing body image directly and somatically, even though so many women are quietly struggling with it.

We share what it looks like to move through changing relationships with your body across different stages of life, how to support kids growing up in diet culture today, and what it’s been like navigating the body-positivity space as Jewish women after October 7th, 2023.

This is an honest, grounded look at what body image healing actually looks like in real life.

Learn more about Rachel by visiting her Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rachel_tuchman_lmhc/ 
Or website: https://www.racheltuchman.com/

I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalastudio

Transcript

Rebecca Sigala 0:00

Hello, welcome back to the Body Image Revolution. Today I have something really special for you. I'm joined by therapist Rachel Tuchman, and we're talking about what's often missing in the body image world. She is a health at every size aligned clinician, and she helps Adults and adolescents with their relationship with food and their bodies and the work that she's doing online is absolutely inspiring and I had to have her on. And I love this conversation because we're talking about what we see as missing from the body image conversation, from body image healing, from body positivity spaces, and we touch on so many different topics from what body dissatisfaction really is, and what's happening inside your nervous system when you have body dissatisfaction. We talk about grief, we also talk about something that was very intriguing for me because it's something that I've noticed with my clients over the years and I actually brought it into this conversation. I wasn't sure what she was going to say, but I've often found myself wondering why isn't body image like. Effectively or directly being addressed in therapy, and we really get into that here. Of course, it is happening in the spaces that Rachel works in, but more broadly, there's still a huge gap, and we talk about that because this is something that is so pervasive and affects every single person on this planet. We also talk about other things, like what it looks like to move through changing relationships with your body and how to support kids growing up in diet culture today and what it's been like navigating body positivity in online spaces as a Jewish woman after October 7th. It's really an honest and meaningful episode. I had such a great time talking to her, and I hope you enjoy this too. I wanna just thank you again for coming on, and I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. I feel like it's very rare that I'll be following someone online, especially in the body image space where I'm going through the slides and I'm like waiting for the thing that I disagree with. And with you, I like really feel so aligned and agree with so much of the stuff that you put out there. And it just is so validating and amazing. And I just wanna, firstly thank you for what you do.

Rachel Tuchman 2:20

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Rebecca Sigala 2:21

Yeah, of course. I have so many questions for you. can you share firstly with people what you do, what your title is?

Rachel Tuchman 2:30

Okay, so I am a licensed mental health counselor. LMHC.

Rebecca Sigala 2:36

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 2:36

It's a clinical master's degree. so I was in grad school for two years, got the mental health counseling degree, and then you need licensure hours as an hours of supervised work, clinical work. So my first job, out of grad school, I worked in a jail, Rikers Island Jail. Jail is not the same as prison. Jail is a temporary, like, holding facility more so it's for people awaiting trial or serving terms less than a year. So I worked in jail for about two years. That was my first job out of grad school. And that was actually like the most amazing educational experience I got clinically. and then from there, I worked with people with disabilities and then eventually went into private practice. I worked in schools also with kids. I thought I always wanted to work with kids. mm-hmm. Over COVID. It was like accidental. kids did not wanna come on Zoom for therapy after being on Zoom all day long. So it ended that their parents were like, Hey, can I take their spot? Like, I need help. and then I realized like, I actually really love working with adults. Like I had worked with, my main focus was kids.

Rebecca Sigala 3:39

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 3:40

And so it really shifted. and now I, I still have some teens and kids, but I really like mostly work with adults right now. and so that's what I do. I have a private practice here that's, thank God, very full busy. and that's, that's a little bit my professional background.

Rebecca Sigala 3:57

How did you get into specifically body image work?

Rachel Tuchman 4:02

So it wasn't anything like a dramatic story or a diagnosis or anything like that? It, it just, it started coming up when I started working with adults. Yeah. I started noticing specifically for women. I worked mainly with women.

Rebecca Sigala 4:17

Yes. I

Rachel Tuchman 4:17

started noticing how much mental space this was taking up. And like, there are these smart, capable, successful women and they're thinking about their bodies all the time. All

Rebecca Sigala 4:28

the time.

Rachel Tuchman 4:28

Yeah. and it, what I notice is that like body complaints are usually the safest place to put deeper pain. Yeah. So I be like, it's easier to say I hate my body and I feel disgusting and. I need to lose weight. It's easier to say that than I feel powerless or I feel invisible, or I feel outta control, or I feel unlovable, or I don't recognize myself anymore.

Rebecca Sigala 4:51

Absolutely. I mean, even like the, the phrase that so many women say is, I feel fat. Well, what does that even mean? And of course, there's so many layers to that,

Rachel Tuchman 4:59

that makes a lot of

Rebecca Sigala 5:00

sense.

Rachel Tuchman 5:00

Just how many women were not feeding themselves the basics. You know, when I would talk about, okay, you're stressed and what's going on? Tell me like, just about like your daily life, not eating, not sleeping over, exercising. Yeah. Hating their bodies, doing all kinds of drastic things to, to change how they look. And I started realizing this is like a real issue. And I think a lot of mental health professionals don't ask about this stuff. They don't.

Rebecca Sigala 5:25

Yeah. I really would love to talk a lot about that. I'm so interested.

Rachel Tuchman 5:29

Assume it's not touched on. and I always say like that's why clinicians also have to be so careful. You never know who has an undiagnosed eating disorder or has disordered eating or severe body dysmorphia. Mm-hmm. Um, and for women specifically there, there's a very good chance that the woman that you are speaking to in front of you has disordered eating or a complicated relationship with her body. And again, a lot of, a lot of our stress we end up taking out on our bodies and, and trying to control that way.

Rebecca Sigala 6:00

was that surprising to you when you started hearing all those stories based on how you felt about your body growing up?

Rachel Tuchman 6:09

Not surprising because again, like I, I'm a woman living in this world and like I, you know, definitely remember feeling that way. Even pre-social media. Definitely not. I feel like now the girls, young girls have such a, I can't even imagine if we had social media, how much worse it would've been. Um, I did grow up in a house that was, there was a lot of weight talk, a lot of weight talk, and we talk, and

Rebecca Sigala 6:32

almost like who, who didn't grow up, at least in a culture school or some kind of environment where that was present.

Rachel Tuchman 6:41

Always, it's, listen, we, we all know SlimFast and Weight Watchers and the Cabbage Soup Diet and gosh, these things, you know? so it was, it's always been present. It just morphs. And again, now with social media, like it used to be, you would hear about it, but like, that was it, it wasn't in your hand and your face, in your ears when you go to bed. Like it's, I really feel for, definitely for women we see it, but for kids also who, like, they're trying to figure out where they fit in this world. Literally, physically, mentally, emotionally, And it's, it's,

Rebecca Sigala 7:14

do you have teenagers?

Rachel Tuchman 7:15

I have of my own children?

Rebecca Sigala 7:17

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 7:18

Yes. Yes. I have teens. and I have like a young adult, meaning like she's 20.

Rebecca Sigala 7:23

Wow.

Rachel Tuchman 7:24

Yeah, it's, it's actually terrifying. Um, yeah, we talk a lot about this in my house, but I also understand that even having a mother, having parents who they know our philosophy, this is like, you know, we talk a lot about this stuff in the house about like body respect and understanding the effects of social media. I know that they're humans and they're living in this world, and while it could be slightly protective to have parents who try to protect them from this, they're also like their own very real people and they're gonna have these feelings regardless, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 7:56

Yeah, yeah. I really try to emphasize that with my 15-year-old daughter. I really wanna create a space where she feels comfortable telling me, like when she doesn't feel satisfied with her body or she has thoughts that are going on. But I do think that there is a little bit of a. A challenge there for someone who, you know, both me and my husband are completely on the same page. And this is also our philosophy and our approach to like, you know, body acceptance and respect and self trust and talking about the effects of social media and all these things. and the relationship with food. It just goes on and on. So we have these conversations, but sometimes I feel like it might create this other standard for her. Do you know what mean? Yes. It's

Rachel Tuchman 8:37

definitely where they feel like unsafe to complain. Like, oh, I can't say that I feel disgusting. I can't say that I wish my body looked differently.

Rebecca Sigala 8:44

Right.

8:44

And

Rachel Tuchman 8:44

that's why like, it's so important to give that permission of like, I know that you are going to feel this way and I want you to be able to talk with me about it, and I wanna be able to challenge it for you. You know? And yeah, I have days where I feel exactly the same and I go through the same discomforts or similar discomforts. it feels impossible to live in this world and feel good about yourself because even once you do, even if, let's say you fit the beauty standard, you know. But it doesn't

Rebecca Sigala 9:11

matter.

Rachel Tuchman 9:12

My

9:12

kids

Rebecca Sigala 9:13

does not matter.

Rachel Tuchman 9:14

Yeah, it doesn't matter. The needle is always moving and it's always something else. And I say, I always say to them like, think about even these people that you could see online, you know, like even they're not satisfied, even they're doing the procedures and using the filters. And so even the people that are setting the beauty standard don't even meet the beauty standard. It's impossible. Yeah. They're just not allowed to be satisfied. but definitely giving them the space that they know, like you are allowed to complain and you're allowed to feel bad, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 9:42

Yeah. I think that's really important.

Rachel Tuchman 9:44

Yeah. It's

Rebecca Sigala 9:45

so interesting because it's probably not the conversation that most people are having because they don't have that level of awareness and they're not necessarily working on those things themselves. So they're like, okay, we have to be more positive about our bodies. And we're like, you can complain if you want to. It's like a whole different thing.

Rachel Tuchman 10:03

You can wanna lose weight, you can, you know, feel like you wanna go on a diet. Like those are normal feelings. And let's talk about it. You know? Let's talk about it.

Rebecca Sigala 10:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. That was something that was really surprising for me. I started my work a little over 12 years ago, and I knew that body image of course was an issue, but I didn't realize how prevalent it was. And that literally every single woman that I would photograph would have these thoughts about themselves. And it did not matter if they were in the beauty standard, if they were not, if they were thin, if they were bigger, if other people thought they were beautiful or if they got comments all the time. It was just across the board that people were having these challenges with their relationship, with their body and their relationship with food, and it was so heartbreaking to me. And also, I don't know, there was a little bit of a like, okay, I guess we're in this together.

Rachel Tuchman 11:02

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 11:03

Like we're not alone in this, at least because So much of the brain chatter that we experience before. I think this kind of awareness is like a lot of comparison and it feels very lonely, I think. Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 11:17

Yeah. And I think also, like, I think people assume, I, I mean, I definitely know, they assume sometimes I'll have, like when I talk about this stuff in my work, sometimes I'll have people say like, oh, I know that you don't like, like when I say this, and then they'll say something bad about their bodies. You know?

Rebecca Sigala 11:33

You

Rachel Tuchman 11:33

just have to kind of like stop them and say like, yeah, no judgment here. Like, I think the same things and say the same things sometimes, you know? So I think people think that when we're in this work, like we fixed it, like we don't have body image issues, like

Rebecca Sigala 11:46

Right,

Rachel Tuchman 11:47

we reached the finish line and it's not, I don't see this as something that I am fixing or that I fixed. It's something that I am always working on, that I'm learning how to live in a body that I don't always feel good in, but I'm not turning against myself. Like bodies change. Stress. Stress shows up in our bodies. Like I am 40, I always forget how old I am. I'm 44 now. Yes, I'm 44. Like things are different. At 44 things start changing. You feel different things start looking different. Like, and I, and I see more changes, you know, versus my thirties and like with each stage, like there's things that you have to start like sitting with and saying like, Hey, I, I understand I'm not 20 anymore. And I understand. Yeah. You know, more gray hair or more lines or, and when you're online and you see people doing, you know, fat transfers under their eyes and, and Botox in their forehead.

Rebecca Sigala 12:42

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 12:43

Right. And by the way, all my ads on Instagram are for like the neck stuff, right?

Rebecca Sigala 12:48

Oh yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 12:49

In Instagram knows how old I am that maybe I'm, they

Rebecca Sigala 12:52

target you

Rachel Tuchman 12:53

about that. It gets in your head. Thankfully, I know exactly what the algorithm is trying to do to me. Yeah. But if you don't,

Rebecca Sigala 13:00

sometimes I think, like if I watch, like I watch a video that's like a diet culture thing for like a second too long. All of a sudden my algorithm is like

Rachel Tuchman 13:07

bomb all

Rebecca Sigala 13:08

the before and afters, you know?

Rachel Tuchman 13:10

Yes, yes. It's just, it, it, it's, it's so difficult and I think people need to know like, this is work that I am still doing. And that again, even if, let's say I felt great, guess what? I entered my forties and let's say I feel great, then I'm gonna enter my fifties. God willing, like this is a constant project. And because the standards are always evolving and we're never able to meet that, you know, we're constantly gonna be fighting ourselves, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 13:36

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 13:36

So I think just like the goal is, is really, I say capacity, just staying. Yeah. Tolerating the discomfort. Not abandoning yourself when body days feel hard, that's where I'm at. Like, I always wanna make movement, exercise my priority. Yeah. I'm feeling, I wanna make sure that I'm eating properly, always like nourishing myself, not starving myself. Yeah. And just talking nicely to myself. Like that's, that's my, my own work. And, and again, I'm, I'm doing it with everyone, you know, I'm

Rebecca Sigala 14:07

not just that. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, I feel the same way. And I think it's so important that people know that it's such an ever evolving journey. And then at the same time, I also want people to know what's possible for'em. Yes.

Rachel Tuchman 14:19

You

Rebecca Sigala 14:19

know what I mean? Because Yes, we talk about that it is an ever evolving journey and that there's still gonna be days that things are ebbing and flowing and we'll see an ad and have a thought, but it's still such a different baseline, I'm sure, for you than it was 10 years ago. You know what I mean? So like, if someone said like. But it's not, this is how I feel about myself. Like it's never gonna change. What would you say to that?

Rachel Tuchman 14:49

So I say it, it maybe you won't stop feeling this way, but you'll stop feeling this way as intensely, or you'll stop feeling this way as often. Meaning less obsession. You'll be more present in your body. You'll have more energy for living. You'll know the tools on the days that you're feeling like that instead of spiraling out of control and then doing maybe the things you would always do to make it worse. Yeah. Instead, I'm not feeling my best, but I know what kind of healthy behaviors I need to ground myself and bring myself back. I don't have to be feeling amazing in my body in order to be nice to myself. Yeah. And that's, you know, the work is not to like your body. That's not the work. Yeah. The work is just to stop monitoring yourself, or reduce monitoring, reduce evaluating. Just not, again, not having the thoughts disappear, managing them, putting them in a box and putting them on the shelf. Compartmentalizing, I don't feel great today. Okay. So I'm not gonna stare at myself in the mirror. I'm not gonna, mm-hmm. I'm gonna make sure I wear clothes that are more comfortable today. I'm gonna, you know, drink more water today, it's just about like behavioral changes and again, just a different mindset that helps.

Rebecca Sigala 15:56

Would you align more with like body neutrality or you don't like any of those labels? I'm guessing.

Rachel Tuchman 16:02

So I, I always say it's like whichever framework feels good to you. You wanna say body positivity.'cause when I think body positivity, I don't think of what social media says it is. It's not love yourself, whatever. It's that everybody to be treated in a positive way no matter how they look. Right. You know?

Rebecca Sigala 16:19

Right. That everybody deserves to feel good about their body.

Rachel Tuchman 16:23

Yeah, that they should be treated. They, there should be a positive regard for everybody no matter what. You know that in a doctor's office, I should treat you in a positive manner, not come in with my biases or stigmas or whatever. If I'm a therapist and you're a bigger person in, in my office, I'm not gonna be like, well, hell, it's your trauma that made you fat, or maybe you need to stop.

Rebecca Sigala 16:43

Oh my gosh. That just breaks my heart. I'm sure that happens so often.

Rachel Tuchman 16:47

All the time. All the time. All the time. So I'm gonna treat everyone. I'm gonna have, like I said, a positive regard. So if body positivity feels good for you, great. If body neutrality feels good, perfect. If body respect feels good, whichever term you wanna use, it's just I, I think it doesn't matter. It's just whatever sits right with you. I do think that if people think body positivity means I need to be positive about myself all the time,

Rebecca Sigala 17:10

then that's not helpful.

Rachel Tuchman 17:12

It just means that I need to have a positive regard for myself, which means just basic respect. That no matter what, even if I'm a train wreck and my life is falling apart, I don't beat myself up and I still treat myself with kindness, you know? so, you know, I, I find body respect is the best. like in terms of, I feel like just that it, it means what it sounds like. Yeah. And it's confusing. and I think it gives a clear direction, meaning body neutrality. Okay, I should be neutral about my body, but what does that mean where body respect says Okay, you, no matter how you're feeling, you deserve respect.

Rebecca Sigala 17:46

Yeah. Baseline.

Rachel Tuchman 17:48

Oh yeah. I think it's just a better guide of what it really should be. So,

Rebecca Sigala 17:53

so we kind of touched on it a little bit about like these gaps in the therapeutic world when it comes to body image stuff. And it's something that I. Just don't fully understand. And I'm, you know, a body confidence coach and I feel like it's so necessary and I love when my client, I love therapy. Therapy is cool. I love your hat. I love therapy and I love when my clients are in therapy at the same time as they are doing coaching with me. But often, like you said, it's not touched on. like they're not going into these things. and so I just felt like there was such a need for this work and I'm just wondering like, what's going on? Like, why is it not a part of the therapeutic world?

Rachel Tuchman 18:41

Yeah. So I think that, I think part of it is Not understanding weight stigma, not understanding body diversity, thinking that, you know, everybody needs to look a certain way. So I, that's why I think this work is so important for, even if you're not working in body image eating disorder, disordered eating, you should help. Yeah. Right. Because that's

Rebecca Sigala 18:58

what I'm saying, like, you know, there is places for people who have eating disorders. Yes. But then what about people who either, maybe they have an eating disorder but they don't know it, or just everyone. Everyone else.

Rachel Tuchman 19:11

No, this is like, this is so much a part of our work. and I think again, that's why I think therapists also needs to be very, like, weight neutral. Really examine their biases. because you could really do a lot of harm. So if someone's like, oh, I hate my body today, and I know that therapists have done this, so Oh, what about meeting with a dietician and going on a diet? Like no, there's a feeling underneath that. Right. And that's where I think that like, this is where some of this stuff is missing. Like where you were saying those gaps in body image work, like there's. A lot of thinking and not enough body-based work, which means like people know, a lot of people know their body, hatred is not logical. Right? Yeah. so like giving them like these practical tools like go on a diet. Like, and I, I know I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm sure lots of people could relate. I was never happy at any weight. My thinnest, my, my dieting day. Yeah. You, you're never happy. It's not enough and it's not logical. Right? And how, by the way, in the morning you can wake up and feel great and by the end of the day you feel disgusting. Your body didn't change in those 10 hours during the day. But again, it's all. It's up here, but we're not thinking about like what is going on. Body image Distress is usually a nervous system issue. It's not just a thing, right? So when I'm overwhelmed or I'm feeling bad about my marriage, or about my kid, or about myself socially or whatever,

Rebecca Sigala 20:33

it's so easy to go to the thing you think you can control.

Rachel Tuchman 20:36

My body's gonna become the target, right? That's, yeah. So we're not looking at how do you notice sensations in your body without panicking and freaking out? How do you stay present with that stress instead of checking out and starting to control and you know, doing that kind of thing. do you recognize that when you start like picking on yourself that you might be stressed about something. So if you're about to go to, you know, a wedding or a social event and you're like, I look disgusting and everything, I feel terrible, what's really going on? I'm scared of judgment. I'm scared I won't fit in. I'm scared. Nobody will talk to me. I feel intimidated by this crowd. I think what's

Rebecca Sigala 21:16

like, maybe your body is not the problem.

Rachel Tuchman 21:18

Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 21:19

And it's so interesting because I think the same therapist who will work on limiting beliefs and changing your beliefs and looking somatically at your body and like the underlying feelings with everything else, then it comes to your body and there's like this huge blind spot. Are you seeing that as well?

Rachel Tuchman 21:38

Yeah, I, I think that sometimes therapy can reinforce that disconnect by talking about your body.

Rebecca Sigala 21:44

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 21:45

Instead of talking about how you're feeling in it, you know? Yeah. and so I think that that's definitely a problem that we're not like focusing on, instead of saying, oh, you know, like, let's talk about what is really going on. What are you scared of? What is the focus? What I say this also with like, when I have a partner, let's say a couple and one partner is saying, I'm not attracted to them anymore. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm disgusted by him.

Rebecca Sigala 22:08

Yeah. Okay. This is a good topic. Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 22:10

Right. Usually what's going on. Sometimes there is a physical aspect. Sometimes, usually though, what is going on is there is an emotional disconnect. Yeah. I feel like I don't respect him. He, you know, isn't successful in his job and it's making me feel like yuck about him as a provider, or I don't like as a father. Like, it makes me feel like, like, who did I marry? I don't recognize you. And then so then I start picking you apart physically, you know, that I, I don't like aspects of you physically. I don't know how to have this conversation, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 22:42

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 22:42

Pulling away subconsciously, I'm saying I'm not attracted to you because there's these parts of you that I just don't know how to make sense of, you know? Yeah. So when a couple will come in, or a one part of the couple will come in and say, there's an attraction issue there. Okay. What's going on in the marriage? Like, what's the relationship like? because that's usually what it's about, you know? Definitely in a longer term relationship also, like it's really more about an emotional disconnect. So I think that's definitely one piece. I think also people skip, like the grief and loss part of body image work, you know, like, right away they rush them to like acceptance, like, feel good, feel good.

Rebecca Sigala 23:17

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 23:18

What they lost. Right? So people are grieving, aging or fertility stuff. Mm-hmm. Or pregnancy, postpartum changes or illness or injury. If there's like, you know, a loss of functions in their body that they used to have or you know. Or not being seen or having a partner who says, I'm not attracted to you since you had kids, or since you're aging, or,

Rebecca Sigala 23:39

that's heartbreaking. Yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 23:41

it's really

Rebecca Sigala 23:42

hard. And that's a lot.

Rachel Tuchman 23:43

Yeah. And when that grief is not allowed, it turns into control, obsession, shame, you know? So most people are not shallow, they're mourning something very real, and we have to make space for that. So I think that piece also is like the, the grief and the loss. Like we have to name it, we have to tell people it's okay. It's okay to feel bad about your wrinkles or your gray hair, or that your body does not look like the same after, or however many kids like you can feel bad about that. Yeah. But again, sometimes people think, well, if I'm body positive, I'm supposed to love my gray hair because Meryl Streep said I should. And like,

Rebecca Sigala 24:19

they're just constantly, like, gaslighting themselves and not

Rachel Tuchman 24:22

like, am

Rebecca Sigala 24:22

I, I'm not giving themselves the space to actually feel what they're feeling.

Rachel Tuchman 24:26

Right. You know? Am I, am I like not a good, an empowered woman because I. I'm, I'm feeling these things. And the reality is like, yes.

Rebecca Sigala 24:34

I think that's probably one of the biggest obstacles to my work honestly, is people feeling like they just don't wanna admit that this is something that they struggle with. Because that is the women that I'm working with, the people who are so out there and so many of my clients will say like, you know, no one would ever guess that this is what goes on in my head. And I look confident and I act confident, but I still have this internal narrative that is constantly in the back of my mind. It might not stop me from doing things, but it's stopping me from like being present in my body and feeling as good as I could.

Rachel Tuchman 25:16

Right. Yeah. And I think that's, I guess another gap that I would say is like, we need to make it clear to people what the healing looks like, meaning it's not gonna be linear. Like I said, you could feel great in your thirties. Like, okay, I got it. Like I'm comfortable in my skin. Finally, it doesn't bother me. And guess what? You turn 40 and then you're finally, you get it in your forties. Okay, I'm good. I accepted it. I'm, and then you turn 50, and then you turn 60. You know what I'm saying? Like it, there's constant, and, and as your body changes, not just physically, but even you start noticing certain things mentally or you know, your, your abilities. It's harder to do this or you can't do some of things. Just life is changing. Like I think there's this pressure to sell like a transformation in body image work. Like, you're gonna love yourself and you're right.

Rebecca Sigala 26:04

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 26:04

But in reality, the thoughts come back when you're stressed.

Rebecca Sigala 26:07

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 26:08

Life stages bring new vulnerability and new struggles. Like, we have to be honest about that. Like fluctuation that happens. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 26:16

And

Rachel Tuchman 26:16

it teaches people how to respond differently in each of those stages. And it doesn't have to be perfectly, like it's just gonna be different.

Rebecca Sigala 26:23

yeah, I agree. And I also feel like there are things that we can do and put in place that even when those things come up, then we know kind of how to respond to them or like have processes that we go through. And one of the things that like I feel really passionate about is working on expanding your definition of beauty.

Rachel Tuchman 26:42

Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 26:43

cause I feel like that part is missing a bit. Like, I think it's very important to, you know, be in touch with. yourself somatically and understanding, you know, the feelings in your body and like your behaviors and the, just the baseline respect. I feel like that's so important. And then there's this other piece of like, well, if I always think that people who are thin are better and more beautiful than someone who's bigger, or I think someone who's younger is more beautiful than someone who's older, then you can't change the way you see yourself really. You can be kind to yourself, but you can't actually shift into, oh, I actually like, I, I kind of like that. Or, I think that's beautiful. You know what I mean?

Rachel Tuchman 27:26

Yeah. It's very hard. But I think that that creating that awareness of those thought patterns of the things that we believe are beautiful or better or more desirable or whatever like that is, it

Rebecca Sigala 27:38

helps. That's good too. Just having the awareness of it.

Rachel Tuchman 27:40

Yeah. Yeah. Like somewhere along the line, they got the idea that like. Chiseled jawline is like what we all have to have, like

Rebecca Sigala 27:46

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 27:48

Is that, is that true? Like we have to be, is

Rebecca Sigala 27:51

that true?

Rachel Tuchman 27:52

We have to challenge that, ask ourselves, like, is that reality? Like, you know, and like I said, with images constantly being bombarded by them, like it's, it's really hard. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 28:05

Really

Rachel Tuchman 28:05

difficult.

Rebecca Sigala 28:06

One of the other griefs that I was thinking about when you were talking about all the different kinds of grief that come up is the grief of when women start to heal their relationship with their body and then realize all the years that they spent being obsessed with it.

Rachel Tuchman 28:23

Yeah. And that, that does happen a lot. You know, I find especially I know that I had this, I find especially like I'll look back at my younger years, my twenties or whatever, and I, I feel sad for that like young person who was wasting so much time hating herself and not just like. You know, embracing, and that's why I say also like when someone looks at a picture and like, oh, it looks so disgusting. I say, I promise one day you're gonna look back. And think how gorgeous you look like you think this picture with your kids, you wanna delete it. Do not delete it.'cause a, they're, they're not gonna look at the picture the same way that you are. They're gonna, that picture, they just wanna see you.

Rebecca Sigala 29:00

And that person will probably see it differently in a few years.

Rachel Tuchman 29:03

A hundred percent. And yeah. And one day you're gonna look back and be like, I was so adorable. Like, why didn't I love myself? You know? Yeah. There is a lot of that grief and, and I say like, just, you know, I don't want people to get stuck in that. Like, I was so, like why didn't I appreciate what I appreciate. Just Yeah. Yeah. Like it inspires me to really focus on now.'cause I know I'm gonna have the same hindsight in 10 years from now about where I'm at now. So let me just try to ground myself. I'm not feeling great today, but I know that this is just a feeling that will pass, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 29:35

Yeah. Um,

Rachel Tuchman 29:36

and I think, again, a much easier said than done, but just because it's hard doesn't mean we can't, we can't do it. You know, like we have to keep trying. So, yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 29:48

you said that you started to hear all of these stories and you started making these connections like, okay, this is like a really important thing and I really care about it. Was there, you said there was nothing big, but like, I feel like there had to be something like, was there like a book or a mentor or something that like really inspired you to like really go down this path because it seems like it's a big focus of yours.

Rachel Tuchman 30:12

so honestly it was just because I just kept hearing more and more and more in my office. I just started realizing like, shoot, like I never

Rebecca Sigala 30:22

can't avoid it.

Rachel Tuchman 30:23

Attention to this. Yeah. Like, this is crazy. Like I, I didn't, I just didn't get it. And then honestly, I was, you know, on social media and I was following like therapists and dieticians who were in this space, you know, that they were in the anti diet world and talking about just weight stigma. And I was just learning about things that I had never even known about. I didn't know about weight stigma and, and health at every size. And it just made sense to me, you know, that I was like, yeah, yes. Like this is, this is trauma informed work, by the way, also, like talking with people about what it is like to exist in a body, and especially someone in a bigger body who's being treated in really abusive ways and, and not getting the care that they deserve. Getting different care, getting harmful care, and the long-term effects that that has on them. And then we blame them for that, you know? So they have worse health. Outcome. Outcome.

Rebecca Sigala 31:13

And you're thinking about healthcare specifically?

Rachel Tuchman 31:15

Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about that. Just they have worse health outcomes. Like because they're fat. No, because they're fat. They are not getting the healthcare that they need and deserve. And so then they have worse health outcomes. Because if I am in a bigger body and I'm scared to go to the doctor because they're gonna shame me, I only ends up going when I'm in the worst place. And so if you wait and wait and wait, then yes, the outcome is worse versus the thin person.

Rebecca Sigala 31:38

And then they're still told like, it's'cause you're fat. And

Rachel Tuchman 31:40

they're, yeah, lose weight. Lose weight. Oh, they died because they're fat. Like no one dies from being fat. You know? So just realizing that like the cruelty of it all, and I, I'm someone who I'm sure people who are on my page can sense this. I'm someone who has a very strong sense of justice. Yeah. People, it bothers me to see people being hurt and being mistreated and being abused and

Rebecca Sigala 32:03

yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 32:04

I just don't like it. You know, I don't, I don't like bad behavior. and I'm someone who really feels like a very strong urge to like, fix what's wrong in this world. To a fault sometimes, you know. Like, I have to remind myself I can't fix everything and I can't make everything right. Right. But I still believe it's important to stand up for people and, and if I have a certain privilege or a, a platform or a voice or the ability to say or do something that can help someone, like I wanna do it. and so you

Rebecca Sigala 32:30

get pushback by either people you know, or online.

Rachel Tuchman 32:35

Yeah. Uh, tons, tons, tons, tons. Listen, I understand this is hard for people to digest. I remember in the beginning I had a hard time with it. Like I didn't completely understand it.

Rebecca Sigala 32:43

Right.

Rachel Tuchman 32:44

Um, and I was a little bit, you know, I, I believe too, like yeah. If you just try hard enough, like you can lose weight and, and

Rebecca Sigala 32:51

a

Rachel Tuchman 32:51

little

Rebecca Sigala 32:52

more disciplines.

Rachel Tuchman 32:53

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I. I believed that, but also that's kind of a culture I grew up in, like go on diets, weight loss, surgery, exercise, constantly like that. I was around that a lot, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 33:04

Yeah. Um, me too.

Rachel Tuchman 33:06

And seeing people that struggled with their weight and, and I was always like the thin one in my family also, so there was like a lot of like even guilt about it, not really understanding and

Rebecca Sigala 33:16

mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 33:17

So I, I was definitely in that world of thinking like, oh, it's just about self-control and it's just about you don't want it enough and being lazy or whatever it is. so that for sure also informed some of it, maybe trying to, like in retrospect, like seeing all that pain that they were going through and I couldn't fix it now as an adult and I can fix it this way by speaking up for them. I couldn't then I didn't know. And

Rebecca Sigala 33:42

yeah. And

Rachel Tuchman 33:43

so now I could like make it right and be an advocate and, and you know, so there's probably some of that in there that was, yeah, that makes sense. But again, I just, I, it was very,

Rebecca Sigala 33:53

it's also harmful for you, you know what I mean? Like, I, I, I have a podcast episode called, like diet culture is, I forgot what it's called exactly, but the idea, the concept behind it is that diet culture is harmful to everyone. Like yes. Not just people in larger bodies. And I think that's kind of that misconception of like, oh, well, body positivity is for people who are in larger bodies, but it's not because this. So detrimental to everybody.

Rachel Tuchman 34:18

Yeah. You don't have to be on like a diet to be affected by diet culture. You don't have to be

Rebecca Sigala 34:23

Right.

Rachel Tuchman 34:24

You know, like diet culture is, it, it affects everybody, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 34:28

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 34:29

It, it's really, and also honestly, like having girls, I have three girls. This was a big thing. Like I did not want them to struggle in the way that I did, and I didn't want them, I, I just wanted to be the voice in their ear that is combating whatever they're hearing and seeing. And again, I don't expect them to be immune from this. They're not going to, of

Rebecca Sigala 34:50

course.

Rachel Tuchman 34:51

But I do wanna pad it a little bit for them so that

Rebecca Sigala 34:54

there's, have you noticed the like impact that it's had on your 20 year old?

Rachel Tuchman 34:59

Definitely. Definitely. I also know, like, thankfully I feel like, because I'm aware, like I was able to be proactive in a lot of things. So when she went off for her year in seminary, which is like if you are a parent that is sending your kid off for their year in Israel abroad, away from you college. That is like prime time for kids to slip into. Eating

Rebecca Sigala 35:18

disorders.

Rachel Tuchman 35:19

Yeah, eating disorders, disordered eating. So I knew right away, I do not want this to be a struggle.

Rebecca Sigala 35:24

There's so many like jokes about seminary girls gaining weight and all of that, and

Rachel Tuchman 35:28

mom being terrified and starving and over exercising. I did not want her to feel that pressure. And again, she is a human. I know she will feel that pressure. She cares about how she looks. She is impacted by this culture. Yeah. So I hired a dietician who I trust to work with her to help her learn how to feed herself and fuel herself.

Rebecca Sigala 35:45

Wow,

Rachel Tuchman 35:46

that's

Rebecca Sigala 35:46

so proactive. That's really inspiring.

Rachel Tuchman 35:49

She, all time, she says it saved her. She says like it was the thing that kept her like healthy and balanced and not obsessive incredible

Rebecca Sigala 35:57

and

Rachel Tuchman 35:57

opened her eyes to a lot of things. And thankfully I was financially able to do it for her.

Rebecca Sigala 36:02

Yeah. Um,

Rachel Tuchman 36:03

and it was the greatest thing ever. But I knew going in, I said, I am not. Letting her have this experience. I don't want that to take over a whole year.

Rebecca Sigala 36:11

That'd be amazing if every seminary had like an anti-diet nutritionist,

Rachel Tuchman 36:16

but so many of'em don't wanna talk about it. We don't wanna give girls ideas like they have the idea anyway. I don't know what you, you know what, so it just drives

Rebecca Sigala 36:24

and then they get into the shiduch system and it's hell, like,

Rachel Tuchman 36:27

yes. And, and by the way, that's what they're all thinking about too. I can't gain weight and come back and then I'm just, and you know, and I just, I was like, I'm not letting that be her year. and so

Rebecca Sigala 36:36

that's beautiful.

Rachel Tuchman 36:38

It was the greatest thing. And again, that's why I say that's the advantage, I guess, of like being in the work I'm in, is that I know the risks. I know the vulnerabilities. I knew what to put in place and who to put in place to help her so that this would not be a thing. I encourage my friends and parents to do this. I say like, they're going to Sem, like do this. Like if you can, like, wow. It doesn't have to be weekly sessions. It could be a once a month. Like set them up.

Rebecca Sigala 37:00

Yeah. Something.

Rachel Tuchman 37:02

so that's, I think that's really key and really important if it's available. But yeah, it's, it's definitely having girls like that, that also inspired me. Like, I need to learn more about this. I wanna make sure that I have a home where it's just different. The focus isn't on bodies and weight and, and again, not even just'cause the home I grew up in, but the world that we live in, I didn't, there's so much more, like I said, there's so much more now than when we were growing up. Like,

Rebecca Sigala 37:30

mm-hmm

Rachel Tuchman 37:31

I really need to make sure. You know that I do.

Rebecca Sigala 37:35

Did your husband just like, come along this journey with you and is on the same page as you?

Rachel Tuchman 37:40

Yes. He was like super on board with it.

Rebecca Sigala 37:42

that's amazing. Mine too.

Rachel Tuchman 37:45

Very, like, it totally made sense to him. And, and he read the books and he read the studies and he was very into it, which is, that's a real blessing.'cause I have some, I've met people that they don't have a partner on board. Mm. You know, that challenging if your partner is

Rebecca Sigala 38:00

so challenging,

Rachel Tuchman 38:01

the one dieting or the one saying things and you're trying to, that can make it really hard. But I always say it doesn't, honestly, at the end of the day, you don't necessarily have to be on the same page. Like you can be the one that, and not speaking badly about your partner, but you say, this is how I feel. And you know, if dad's on Yeah. Or like dad can do his thing, your kids will align with what feels right for them, you know? And so if you're not a hundred percent like on the same page about these things, and maybe even you disagree. Your kids will see what feels right and what makes more sense. Yeah. You know, I do find that a lot of kids, as they get older, they're like, I don't wanna be starving myself. Like, you know, mom was, or dad. I don't wanna be on that diet. Like he never ate anything. He didn't have any fun. She couldn't go anywhere. She was always picking at her salad and not enjoying the birthday cake. Like they see it, they know.

Rebecca Sigala 38:52

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Tuchman 38:53

So you just do you and don't talk badly about your partner or judge or you

Rebecca Sigala 38:57

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 38:58

You know, daddy's doing what feels right for him or mom is doing like what she feels, you know, she needs to do like. Here's what I think is best for you. Everybody's different. Yeah. Grandpa is different. You know, grandpa is going to, this is what I think makes the most sense for your health and wellbeing. And safety. Yeah. And joy in the world, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 39:17

Yeah. That's beautiful. I feel like a lot of the times I feel that way and I feel a lot of peace. And I am, I don't feel like I'm constantly like fighting diet, culture and everyone around me, but then there are some days when I'm just like angry about it still, you know? And I'm just like, how am I the only one that like thinks this way? You know? and it can be frustrating and a little bit lonely. And even people who, you know, my friends who are in the healing world and therapists and all these things, like, it's like I still don't have that community of my own, which I, I create for my clients, which I love, but like, I don't have that community of my own where I feel like. We're on the same page about this kind of thing. Do you, and, and how do you feel about it?

Rachel Tuchman 40:07

So I actually, it's interesting. I do feel like more and more people are starting to understand the harms. And I actually think it's like ironic. I think it's like this ozempic era we're in. I think people, whoa, like this is crazy. Like they're starting to realize how far the obsession has gone. And I think people are starting to see like wait, maybe our obsession with weight loss and calling it healthy is actually kind of crazy. You know, like we have Serena women,

Rebecca Sigala 40:37

almost like Ozempic, like illuminated like,

Rachel Tuchman 40:39

yes. How this is not about health, right? How we have Serena Williams, right? Greatest female athlete of all time, saying like, I wasn't healthy. Then she went on row and lost 35, 34 pounds and now she's healthy. What do you mean you were training with personal trainers for hours a day? The strongest athlete. Greatest athlete, you have personal chefs. You're eating in a way that is, you have a dietician who is planning your meals nutritionally so that you are at your optimal functioning level. You have private doctors, you have access to everything. This is not about health and like that's what makes me crazy about, listen, if you wanna lose weight, Serena, then just tell us that. Yeah, but don't say this about your health. And you weren't healthy. You weren't healthy. You weren't healthy. That is not the reality. And she's not even making claims like I had diabetes or. Right. Just saying that didn't feel healthy.

Rebecca Sigala 41:29

It was for my health.

Rachel Tuchman 41:30

I couldn't lose weight after my kids. Like, yes, that's what happens when you have babies and your body changes and you get older. Your, your body is just not the same. And especially, like I said, for someone like you who's working out and you have access to everything. So I how it's being framed as health now, like, I think people are starting to realize like, this is actually kind of crazy, you know? I do know also like I, the people that know me, you know, that I'm friends with or you know, or see my work, like they've heard enough about it that like. Even if they don't personally buy into it for themselves, meaning like that, they're like,

Rebecca Sigala 42:04

they respect it. I also, I also have that

Rachel Tuchman 42:07

they'll say, I get what you're saying, but I still wanna lose weight, or I'm still gonna be on my diet. Yeah. Or I can't be fat or,

Rebecca Sigala 42:12

and they talk about it less in front of me and I'm like, great.

Rachel Tuchman 42:15

Yeah. And they're mindful of how they speak, you know? And someone just tell me the other day how, on her social media, she's so careful how she talks about food because of what I've said. Oh, you know,

Rebecca Sigala 42:27

that's not, that's a good thing.

Rachel Tuchman 42:29

Yeah. Like, perfect if that's what I change for you. Meaning even if you have your own ideas about whatever, but you're being careful about how you speak. Amazing. That is the change I want. Yeah.'cause a person somewhere who's struggling, if you say it the wrong way, you could trigger something in them. So, so even if I don't want full buy-in, you know, I don't, I'm not expecting that. I know it's hard for people.

Rebecca Sigala 42:51

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 42:52

But respect that in front of me. Definitely. You're not gonna talk about that stuff. Like in a, and, and again, it's

Rebecca Sigala 42:57

a big deal.

Rachel Tuchman 42:58

Yeah. You know? and that you'll,

Rebecca Sigala 43:00

and just like creating your own kind of like natural boundaries around the conversations that you have and the, like, what you talk about.

Rachel Tuchman 43:10

And I find that my conversations are better and fuller. Like we're not talking about eating Yes. And dieting and body bashing and like, we can actually talk about things that matter, you know? and we can enjoy our food without like, oh, I can't eat this. Like, this is not the conversation we have. So I, I find that it just helps me to feel. More connected with, with the people I'm with and, and not distracted by this, you know, garbage. And so,

Rebecca Sigala 43:37

yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 43:38

it feels more free and and authentic for me, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 43:42

Yeah. I'm with you. I'm totally with you on that. I guess I just have my moments that I get frustrated still.

Rachel Tuchman 43:48

Listen, I definitely, especially if there's like people that I've spoken to about it before, and like, they still, you know, they'll be like, Hey, like, we're mindful not to say that around here. Or like, don't, like, that's not a compliment to give to my kids. Right. And it keeps

Rebecca Sigala 44:02

sometimes like, maybe like older generations or family members, things like that,

Rachel Tuchman 44:06

they just don't get it. Mm-hmm. Like that mm-hmm. That I'm like, ugh, like, come on. You know? But again, but that's where I will then, you know, turn to my kids and be like, you know what? See for some people they can't get out of it. But if you know that that's like an off comment or that's not a compliment for someone, like, just keep that in mind and I'll give them the, the language to say like. That's actually not a compliment or that makes me uncomfortable, or I try not to talk about that stuff, or

Rebecca Sigala 44:34

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 44:35

Don't when I'm eating or I, I've had enough, like I don't need more food or, you know. Yeah. Actually I'm still hungry. Like giving them the language to respond when they want to or need to. but I do feel like it's a learning moment for them, you know? Or, or even honestly for myself also, if people are still talking and, and not respecting the boundary, sometimes it's like, work for me to do to, to accept. Not everybody is gonna get on the boat with me. They're just not. And

Rebecca Sigala 45:00

yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 45:01

Accept that that is, that makes sense, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 45:04

Yeah. Yeah. Makes

Rachel Tuchman 45:05

a lot. And I can feel frustrated with them and they can feel frustrated with me that they think I don't get it, you know? Like, you know, my goal is not to try to change the whole world and to get everybody thinking the way I'm thinking. Like I said, they can just be more sensitive around me, around my family, on their social media. Just be more mindful of how they share and how they talk about food and bodies, even if they're not changing it themselves and their own lives. Like, like I said, yeah, great for me, I'm happy with that.

Rebecca Sigala 45:32

Yeah. And I really do believe that like the biggest impact we can actually make is with our own relationship with our body.

Rachel Tuchman 45:39

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 45:39

Like I really deeply believe that because that's how you interact with the world. Like, you know, every conversation you have, your relationships, your parenting, how you show up at your job. Like I feel like when you're in constant relationship with your body and on that ever evolving journey, that's like really when you can make such a profound impact. Because you could like fight diet, culture and beauty standards all day long, but if you still hate yourself, then it really doesn't. Change the way you show up.

Rachel Tuchman 46:10

Right, exactly. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 46:13

okay, so one thing I wanted to ask about was what about being a Jewish woman online in the last few years, like after October 7th, and being in the realm that you're in with body positivity, body acceptance, health at every size. How did those two meet in the last few years? I know for me, I saw a lot of people that I followed kind of being anti-Israel, and it was, it was difficult. So I'm curious like what your journey was like with that.

Rachel Tuchman 46:52

So that's, that's very hard. I really like, and people have noticed it, that I do talk less, I mean, it's for a few reasons, but I share less on social media about, you know, like health every size and body positivity, body respect mostly because of that. Because so many of the people I used to follow that I would share content from, I cannot share from them anymore. I can't, they are anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, like,

Rebecca Sigala 47:19

yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 47:20

like horrendously disgusting, awful things. And I, I, I feel abandoned by that world. I do have to have a group of, weight neutral body positive health at every size. Aligned clinicians and dieticians that I'm on Jewish and like, oh, great. Support each other. And I try to share their work when I can. But it's a very small network, you know, meaning I would never go to a conference now because I don't trust that their keynote speaker is not gonna be talking about a genocide or apartheid, which has happened at these conferences. Like, I have to look who's gonna be there. They

Rebecca Sigala 47:52

see it as part of body positivity.

Rachel Tuchman 47:55

Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 47:56

It's so political for them.

Rachel Tuchman 47:58

Yes. That, that this is the work, you know, that, that it's all about, you know, white supremacy and colonizing and oppressors, and that's what Jews and Israelis are. And it's just, it's the language around it is so

Rebecca Sigala 48:12

intense.

Rachel Tuchman 48:13

Yeah. And it's become, honestly, it's become disgusting to me that like I, I'm like almost repulsed by everyone in that movement.

Rebecca Sigala 48:20

there is like this, this one Instagram that's like decolonizing therapy. Did you see that?

Rachel Tuchman 48:25

The worst.

Rebecca Sigala 48:26

Oh, it's so bad. I'm also like, what are these words? Right?

Rachel Tuchman 48:31

So much word salad. All of them. I, I cannot, it just amazes me that they think that they're like on the side of social justice and, and advocating for marginalized groups and for minorities when I'm like. Literally, Jews are a marginalized group, and we are a minority,

Rebecca Sigala 48:46

0.02%

Rachel Tuchman 48:48

of

Rebecca Sigala 48:48

the world,

Rachel Tuchman 48:49

the largest genocide in the entire history of, of anything. Like, and this is how you're speaking about Jews and villainizing us and putting us in danger, and not listening to us and speaking over us. All the things that you say, by the way, nobody should be doing to other minorities. You're defining for us what anti-Jewish hate is. And it's, so the hypocrisy has made me just like nauseous from them. So I really, I really feel like I stepped back a lot from that world in terms of like being involved in their work and sharing their work. It's very hard because like, this was something that I, I was learning from these people and now it makes me wonder like, can I even trust anything you say? Like, and, and do you see your hypocrisy, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 49:30

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 49:31

Um. So it really, it, that's been very hard. I feel very abandoned by that world. And, and yeah, like I said, I just feel like there's such hypocrites that it's like impossible for me to, to listen to them and learn from them. thankfully, you know, some of the main voices that I really respect and learn from have been very respectful and supportive and wonderful. Mm-hmm. That was very hard. But just definitely in the mental health world. yeah, unfortunately a lot of, anti-Israel rhetoric and, and a lot of Jew hatred. and that's rough. It's very hard. You know,

Rebecca Sigala 50:04

it's really hard. I feel like I can't,

Rachel Tuchman 50:07

yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 50:07

I can't learn from them. I just can't.

Rachel Tuchman 50:11

I can't, I won't sign up. If I, if, if I see there's like a, you know, a training I will look into, I will look at the social media of the person. I will look at all of their posts online. I will read about them. And if I see that they have posted anything on Twitter, X, whatever it's called, on Instagram, on Facebook, and on their websites, I won't go. I'm not willing to learn from someone who is willing to disregard my. Inherited trauma and my current trauma from October 7th, who's willing to lie about me and share propaganda and minimize the threat and danger that Jews feel. And villainize, I can't, I can't listen to someone like that. So, you know, it's, it's been very hard. I see a lot of science communicators who do that as well, which drives me nuts. Like

Rebecca Sigala 50:55

Mm.

Rachel Tuchman 50:56

Railing against, you know, follow the science and trust this and, and don't follow that propaganda. And, and then you're posting Al Jazeera, or you're fundraising Al Jazeera. Yeah. Or you're fundraising for UNWRA or you're calling a, a genocide. Like you're someone who's so careful about language and facts and, and data and, and truth, and you're posting this stuff like, how am I gonna listen to you? Yeah. So it feels

Rebecca Sigala 51:21

like

Rachel Tuchman 51:22

it's very lonely, in the world as a Jew right now in terms of that stuff. and I feel like there's been a lot of lost opportunity for me to be involved in trainings and learning because I, I just refuse to, I won't put myself in a situation where I think I might hear something that would be upsetting, um, and make me feel like I'm a Jew in the room and I need to feel in danger or that I have to stand up for myself.

Rebecca Sigala 51:46

do you feel like there's like a silver lining of all of that? Like did it help you clarify things for yourself or something in your work or a focus. I

Rachel Tuchman 51:57

mean, not yet. I hope I'll see the silver. Yeah,

Rebecca Sigala 51:59

I know.

Rachel Tuchman 52:01

Right now, I, I don't, I don't understand what is going on in this world. I don't understand why this is happening. I,

Rebecca Sigala 52:09

yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 52:10

just really feel it. It feels upside down that people, like I said, who are in the social justice space and think that they're, you know, therapy is political and advocating for those, but like, speaking about Jews and Israel, and I like

Rebecca Sigala 52:25

that

Rachel Tuchman 52:25

trauma and the way you do, like, it doesn't make sense to me. I have to believe that there's some good or something somewhere. I struggle to see it. I don't, I don't know. Yeah. but it's hard.

Rebecca Sigala 52:37

I think that's, um, yeah, probably why I kind of, I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I let go of like the word body positivity, because obviously people misconstrue it to think that it's just being positive about your body all the time. That's one thing. And the other thing is, yeah, what happened after October 7th, and I'm just like. I guess I'm not part of that movement, like, you know.

Rachel Tuchman 52:57

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 52:58

So

Rachel Tuchman 52:58

just a lot of these advocates, you know, for, for, you know, believe women and like you really just see like, Jews are from so much of that work. Like they just don't care. And we're really on our own, which is the reality of Jews throughout history. We've, this is why we are a closed community. We rely on each other. We, we get pushed outta spaces and we create our own and, and you know, we understand that we can rely on each other only and.

Rebecca Sigala 53:26

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 53:27

I thank God we have that, that we can lean into our communities and our faith and our identity and

Rebecca Sigala 53:32

yeah,

Rachel Tuchman 53:33

our homeland. And you know, I think I've been to Israel more in the past two years and I've been in

Rebecca Sigala 53:38

Really?

Rachel Tuchman 53:39

Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 53:40

Amazing.

Rachel Tuchman 53:42

so, you know, I'm grateful for that, but, yeah, I, I hope one day I'll, I'll like, you know, I'll understand something good. Yeah. That came out of all of this trauma for the past two years. but we have this collective trauma that we have all been carrying. and even now, you know, thank God with all the hostages home and, and closure in that way, like, we have so much to like, heal, you know? Mm-hmm. and a, yeah, we're

Rebecca Sigala 54:07

still on edge here.

Rachel Tuchman 54:09

Yeah. Because there's this bigger problem now that like, okay, so now all the hostages are home, but now we have this like, insane amount of Jew hatred that was unleashed. In this world that's not even hidden anymore. No one's pretending. And we have to live with that, you know? Yeah. And navigate this world. And, you know, college campuses are not the same and workplaces are not the same. And the internet is not like, it's just, it's hard. And again, even this can impact, all of this stress can impact our eating, our sleeping, our movement, our how we feel in our bodies. Gaining weight. Losing weight, yeah. You know, and like

Rebecca Sigala 54:45

the disconnection from your body. And like, I mean, I think for the women here especially, I mean, I think all around the world honestly, but

Rachel Tuchman 54:52

yeah,

Rebecca Sigala 54:52

just being in and out of survival mode all the time and living on the edge and like, you know, even like this whole Iran thing that like, is it happening? Is it not? You know, and everyone's like, oh, it's fine, whatever. Live your life. But then there's like this like subtle survival mode that's just always there or tense, you know.

Rachel Tuchman 55:11

And we just live in it. Like, it's just so crazy. Like we, we are so connected in this world. Like, and I mean like in the way that before internet, we didn't know constantly actually

Rebecca Sigala 55:23

connected

Rachel Tuchman 55:23

bad news and update Savannah Guthrie's mom, there was a pizza delivery, you know, and the talks with Trump here and Epstein files there, and it's like, our nervous systems are not built to withstand this. Like, they're just not, and we are overloaded, you know? And so it makes sense, like I said, a lot of that stress that like, we don't know what to do with it. We'll take it out on our bodies, you know? Yeah. Um,

Rebecca Sigala 55:47

yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 55:48

They like always like, like let's acknowledge like we are living in like abnormal times the access that we have. And by the way, these goings on terrible things were going on in the world all the time. We just didn't know about it.

Rebecca Sigala 56:01

Right. And

Rachel Tuchman 56:02

know about it from the minute we wake up, you pick up your phone to the minute you go to bed, you, your phone fell on your face scrolling about the bad news. It's not good for us, you know? Yeah. And this is actually something that I say, like just being a Jewish Orthodox woman who you know is, is an observant Jewish woman, like I am so grateful for those 24 hours that I have to turn off my phone, unplug.

Rebecca Sigala 56:26

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 56:27

Know what's going on in the world.

Rebecca Sigala 56:29

Yeah. Because

Rachel Tuchman 56:29

it's not for that I know what I would be doing. I would be, yeah. Running to the store, doing laundry, checking the news, listening to that do, it's so nice to like turn off all the noise and just be present with my family.

Rebecca Sigala 56:41

Yeah. With

Rachel Tuchman 56:41

friends. Like just read a book. Just not have to be bombarded with that. And no pressure of like, I have to see what's going on. Right. I can't see what's going on. I cannot find out, you know? Yeah. Even if I'm nervous about something, I won't know, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 56:56

Yeah. And there's like, on a day to day, it's important to not like reach for your phone Right. First thing in the morning and like be on it constantly all day. But it's really hard. It's, it's one of those challenges of our

Rachel Tuchman 57:09

Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 57:09

Of our generation.

Rachel Tuchman 57:10

Yeah. Yeah. So definitely maybe trying those built in times of like, I'm not gonna check the news, I'm not gonna check social media, you know? Yeah. Is how I feel when I do, you know, that like when I put the phone down, then I'm kind of like, Ooh. Like I hate myself, I hate my life. I'm stressed about everything. I feel like, like, you know, an existential crisis going on here. Like, what is my life? Pay attention to that. You know?

Rebecca Sigala 57:33

Yeah. I think that's like actually a really good tip for someone who's feeling like a lot of brain chatter, like inner critic stuff about their body. Like, just put down your phone. Put down your phone,

Rachel Tuchman 57:46

go walk, go out in nature. Yes.

Rebecca Sigala 57:48

Yeah.

Rachel Tuchman 57:50

You know,

Rebecca Sigala 57:50

it's so simple, but it's like so big.

Rachel Tuchman 57:53

Yeah. Yeah. We just, we've become so disconnected from being connected, you know? So definitely like those times where we're just able to just be with ourselves, you know?

Rebecca Sigala 58:04

Beautiful.

Rachel Tuchman 58:05

Yeah.

Rebecca Sigala 58:06

Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on and sharing your story and your wisdom and just being so open and I really appreciate it.

Rachel Tuchman 58:14

Thank you. No problem. Thanks so much.

Rebecca Sigala 58:16

Thank you. And I'll link all of your stuff. Where, where can people find you?

Rachel Tuchman 58:20

So I am on Instagram@racheltuchmanlnhc That's where I post daily, you know, a lot of my stories, mostly really

Rebecca Sigala 58:28

good stuff.

Rachel Tuchman 58:30

and posts. And then I'm my website racheltuchman.com. I have blog posts. I do share them on Instagram when, when they're there. But you can definitely go to my website and read some of the stuff I've written. On podcasts, I'm sure if you look up my name in Apple or Spotify, like, then things will come up, you know, talks that I, on Spotify, on podcasts. so that's where I am.

Rebecca Sigala 58:52

Perfect. Thank you so much.