The Body Image Revolution

Owning Your Style & Your Body With Devora Golan

• Rebecca Sigala • Season 1 • Episode 67

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In this episode, I sit down with stylist and empowerment coach Devora Golan for a powerful conversation on fashion, body image, and confidence. Devora shares her journey from a shy, reserved child to boldly embracing her role as a stylist who uses fashion as a tool for empowerment and self-expression.

Together, we explore how embracing your style can help you love your body, align your outer appearance with your inner self, and break free from societal and self-imposed limitations. From thrifting joyfully to redefining beauty and embracing imperfections, this episode dives deep into body image, personal growth, and the non-linear journey of self-acceptance.

Packed with practical tips and inspiring reflections, this conversation invites you to see fashion not as a mask to hide behind, but as a way to reveal your truest self and step into unapologetic confidence.

Follow Devora on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/devoragolan

The Self-Care Revival starts September 15th. Click here to sign up today: https://www.rebeccasigalacoaching.com/the-self-care-revival

I would love to hear from you on Instagram!
https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalastudio

Rebecca:

Hello, my loves. Welcome to the Body Image Revolution. If you are new here, I'm Rebecca Sigala, a body confidence coach, boudoir photographer, and your host for these real raw conversations about self-love and confidence and what it actually takes to feel good in and about your body. And if you've been here before, welcome back girl. I'm so glad you're here. This is going to be such an incredible season of the podcast. Now, here's something you might not know about me. Even if you've been here before, back in high school, a big dream of mine was to go to fashion school in LA. I even worked at this little fashion agency in Minnesota and I won a national competition for this fashion institute in Los Angeles. And I was just a small town girl with big fashion dreams. I did not end up taking that path, which is another story for another time. But honestly, fashion has always been a big love of mine, and I think it makes a lot of sense because style is so deeply connected with confidence and creativity and femininity, and helping women feel beautiful in their own skin, and allowing women to show up as their full authentic selves, which is. Exactly what I do today, and that's why I was so excited for this conversation with Devora Golan. She is a stylist and empowerment coach, and we talk a lot about how body image and style is so deeply interconnected and she actually shares about her own journey, which is really interesting. She talks about being a shy, reserved child to boldly embracing herself and her body and her style, and now her role as a stylist to help other women use fashion as this tool for healing and empowerment and self-expression. I know so many of you are gonna love this episode and get so much out of it. There's really great mindset shifts and practical tools that you can actually implement in your own life as well. But before we dive in, I just wanna mention that the Self-Care Revival is starting on Monday, September 15th. If you have not heard about it yet, it is. Free 21 day reset with short daily audios and really fun, simple tools that is gonna help you go from this place of feeling disconnected from your body and feeling like you're on autopilot when it comes to taking care of yourself, to feeling alive and energized and nourished so that you can just really just be your full, amazing, radiant self and do self care from a place of love and joy and not guilt or punishment. None of us were really ever taught how to do that. And it's not about discipline. It's not about willpower. It's about really seeing yourself and seeing self care in a completely different way. That's exactly what we're gonna do, and we're gonna actually do it together, like really create these routines so that you can start this new season, this Jewish New Year in a place of just confidence And feeling really good in your body. it's gonna be amazing. The link is in the show notes. Come and join us. Alright guys, let's dive into this really beautiful conversation with Devora. Hello. I am so happy that you're finally on my podcast.

Devora Golan:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Rebecca:

I know that we're gonna have an amazing conversation and let's just get into it. I think what really connected us was the fact that the work that we do kind of empowers women in very different, but also similar ways,

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

and we both have a certain mindset around body image and loving ourselves that I think is pretty rare in our communities. Can you share a little bit about how long you've been doing this and what got you into your work in the first place? Probably would be best to share what you do as well.

Devora Golan:

Yeah, sure. So, my name is Devora. I am a transformational stylist and a empowerment coach. I help women step into their power and become their next level versions of themselves through a combination of styling and mindset work through my unique, signature empowerment experience. So that's what I do. Um, I've been doing this professionally about almost eight years, and, sort of on the side for a really, really long time. Kind of like since high school. So, um, twenty-something years. I'm dating myself. I was a really, really shy kid growing up and um, I didn't really know how to approach people, speak to people, but I always loved being around people. So I wanted to like, participate, but I didn't really know, have the voice and the words to, go up to people and start a conversation. at the same time, totally unrelated and I didn't realize this was gonna have an effect on me, but I also was a kind of kid who always loved beautiful things, putting things together.

Rebecca:

Mm.

Devora Golan:

Um, and so

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

step for me because I just, I love beautiful things. So,

Rebecca:

I ask you what your astrology sign is? Are you into that?

Devora Golan:

I'm technically an Aries, but I'm much more Pisces personality, much more.

Rebecca:

Oh, interesting.

Devora Golan:

so I was actually born two weeks late, so I'm much more like that creative, um, personality as opposed to Aries which is typical very Type A I'm very much not that way, which is really interesting,

Rebecca:

Interesting. Well, maybe because I mean, there's the sun sign, the moon sign, the rising sign. So maybe, maybe you have some other ones mixed in there.

Devora Golan:

guess.

Rebecca:

I've been really into astrology lately. Cool. Okay. Awesome. So yeah, I also, I really relate to that, like when I was younger, I was so into beautiful things and I would sit on my porch looking through actually interior design magazines. I thought that I was gonna be an interior design when I grew up, so I totally relate to that.

Devora Golan:

Right. So I did that also with fashion magazines and interior design. Anything really, even like, even table settings, I just like pretty things and putting things together, you know

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

So I started dressing that way. I started experimenting with my clothing. And I grew up in a very, very small town with a very small religious community. so it was a little bit, um, shocking to some people that I was sort of dressing outside of the, you know, regular way. Very conservative, the

Rebecca:

What, what type of community did you grow up in?

Devora Golan:

So it was actually like when I think back as an adult, um, it was a really, really beautiful community. As a kid, it wasn't so fun because it's such a small place, a kind of place where like everyone knew each other's business and you know, your neighbor knew something about your sister before you did. Like that kind of thing, how it was.

Rebecca:

Right.

Devora Golan:

but

Rebecca:

like that's my community now.

Devora Golan:

yeah, totally. No, I, I, so I kind of love that, but also, you know, as a kid and a teenager, I was like, wait, let me like figure this out on my own. I don't want everyone know who my business all the time. Yeah

Rebecca:

I.

Devora Golan:

on the other hand, it was also like this beautiful, almost like utopia of a community it is grown a lot more since then. I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio. but when I was, yeah, when I was growing up, it was like this very, very close knit small community, all different types of. Jews. There was one religious day school. All different types of people would go to it. We were all friends despite, you know, our differences

Rebecca:

Oh, I love that.

Devora Golan:

you know, religious levels and our thoughts and opinions, but we all played together as kids. families ate at each other's houses on Shabbat. Didn't really matter how you dressed or what you thought.

Rebecca:

Wow.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. Which was

Rebecca:

I feel like that for our day and age. It's so funny to say that. I'm like, am I old? Like, is this actually happening? In our day and age, I feel like that was pretty rare to, to have that

Devora Golan:

that until I, like ventured out in the world. just figured like, why would you judge someone else for not dressing the same as you do? or keeping things the same

Rebecca:

Ooh,

Devora Golan:

did. That was so strange to me. Like, you should judge

Rebecca:

wow.

Devora Golan:

kind of person they are for, you know. their qualities, their character traits, like the kind of midot they have. Those are the kinds of things that I would judge someone and not like how much money they had or what brands they wore or, um, what kind

Rebecca:

Wow,

Devora Golan:

political views they had. That was really jarring to me entering the world and realizing the entire world is not like this place, you know, this, this judgment free zone.

Rebecca:

pretty amazing. I'm so glad that you had that childhood.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. So a lot of that sort of shaped me in how I am today because, I still judge people. I try to, at least nobody's perfect course, but I still try to judge people for as they are. any preconceived notions, any, you know, religious biases, all those things. I really try to judge every single person individually for who they are. and I, I really see the beauty in every single person. and that's sort of like what I do. I really try to help bring out, people's physical beauty as well as the magic that's inside them. And that's like the biggest parts of the work that I do, is to help people see their own superpowers and their own magic, and then bring it to the surface so that their internal magic matches their outer expression.

Rebecca:

Hmm. So good. I love that. I was gonna say that I don't know what your experience is, but after doing my work for so many years, I mean, it's just so clear that people are so layered and dynamic and we always hear, you can never judge a book by its cover. But I think the work that we do when you work so intimately with women and get to understand people's. Inner worlds and all the layers and the beautiful messiness that it just kind of takes away the judgment. Like I don't ever see someone and think, oh, she's that kind of person, because that's just not how the world works in my mind anymore. And I think my work really taught me that

Devora Golan:

Right, for sure. For sure. And I love that about you and the way you do things. I, I think that's why, like, I felt so connected to you because I think a lot of the things that we, how we view things are very aligned and how we, see people and how we, both really want to just help women see themselves or how amazing and talented and beautiful and wonderful they are. So,

Rebecca:

seriously.

Devora Golan:

very different tools and very different ways of getting there, but I think we both, at the end of the day, really just wanna, like, help people and bring out people's best.

Rebecca:

Yeah, a hundred percent. so, You were saying how you were growing up and that you loved beautiful things and what happened from there? Because we've spoken before and I know that it's a very personal story for you. It's not just, oh, I liked fashion and now I'm a stylist.

Devora Golan:

right,

Rebecca:

it's something that really goes deep for you.

Devora Golan:

right. So, like I was saying, I was very shy and I was looking for ways to, become like that, more outgoing person. Um, and completely unrelated. I also like pretty things and I started experimenting with fashion and dressing, and things like that. and I found it was really like a way to express myself almost before I had my own words. and I still feel that way today and I still, try to convey that message to my clients and people around me that you actually have the choice for how you want to feel, every single

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

And I, I look

Rebecca:

sounds familiar.

Devora Golan:

yeah, I, I look at getting dressed and, what you wear as sort of like, almost like a live vision board, meaning like

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

term, like you can decide, okay, what kind of goals do I wanna go? How do I'm gonna reach my next level version of myself? How am I gonna get to that next place in the long term? And also in the short term, it's every single day. How do I wanna feel today? And you get to decide that, and getting dressed is really like a gift you can give yourself. Because you get to say, even if you're having an awful morning and everything's going wrong, you can instantly change your mood by putting on something that makes you feel like fire, feel, like, feel amazing, and it completely

Rebecca:

So

Devora Golan:

So, yeah.

Rebecca:

so true. And I mean I, in my own personal journey, I've seen that as well. Even when I didn't have a lot of expendable income to just like go and buy clothes, I would go to gemachs and thrift stores and actually I still do, like, I love it so much. I don't know. Do you like thrifting? Is that like something like,

Devora Golan:

of the hunt. So

Rebecca:

it's so fun.

Devora Golan:

So fun. Love it. Yeah.

Rebecca:

I actually just went to the gemach yesterday and I just came out like on cloud nine. You're right, there's something about like finding things that really fit your personality, that are like an expression of who you are that just makes you feel on top of the world. It's kind of like, you know, getting a new haircut or having a photo shoot. Like, there's just so many tools like that And I feel like what we do. It's that combination of that confidence boost where you like walk out feeling on a high, but it's also something that is very integrated into your everyday life where you're wearing these clothes every day and it's an ever evolving journey. Does that make sense or am I just saying words?

Devora Golan:

no, a hundred percent. I totally get you a hundred percent.

Rebecca:

Okay. Awesome.

Devora Golan:

that's sort of the beauty though of getting dressed, is that you can decide and change on the daily. It doesn't have to be like, oh,

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

you know, I put myself into this image or persona, so I have to like be that person. you get to decide, no, cut out the noise, you're the only person that gets to decide who you wanna be and how you wanna feel. and I use clothing and getting dressed as that, you know, skyrocketing tool to get you there.

Rebecca:

That's amazing. Why do you think that so many women feel like they have to stick to a certain identity? I think this is such a good conversation because I see this so much in my work, so much in my own life. It's, first of all, I mean, I know that we get so many messages from the outside, societal messages, community messages, messages from our family. We think that sometimes it's our own thoughts, but a lot of those things are put inside of our head and we kind of create this persona or identity of who we are. And then for some reason it becomes really scary and difficult for women to break free from that, like, for example. When I first got married for a few years, I covered my hair and it was such a big, decision to decide not to wear it. And I feel like people had so many different opinions. And then at one point I wanted to wear it some days and not wear it others. And that felt like a hypocrisy. And I think a lot of women go through this, maybe not with head covering, but just in general feeling like they need to be a certain way all the time. Do you see that? And why do you think that is?

Devora Golan:

Yeah, I think it's a combination of so many factors. I think it's, like you said, like family community pressure, media. Um, just, you know, the way we're raised as girls and women, which I, I think now it's starting to change. But, you know, in our generation and the previous generation, we were very much raised to like, you have to behave almost like you have to be like a good girl. And those came with a lot of expectations and it completely can vary. You know, depending on what kind of community, what kind of place you're from. every community has their own definition of what like a good girl means. Um, and

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

change just because you reach 18 and now you're an adult. Oh, you're not a girl anymore. You get to decide. You're ingrained with this idea that you have to fit into a certain. Box, um, a certain personality, you know, don't be too loud, don't be, too different. Don't be too weird, you know, whatever it is. So

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

of pressure as being viewed as like good to almost like hide certain parts of ourselves. and whether, you know, that's the careers we choose to go to or how loud we speak, or, not dressing too wild or crazy or even like too colorful, you know, depending on the

Rebecca:

Yeah. Or even taking up physical space, like the size of your body. I feel like that

Devora Golan:

Oh

Rebecca:

plays into it as well.

Devora Golan:

nother conversation.

Rebecca:

Yeah, well that's why we're here. This is the Body Image Revolution. Yes.

Devora Golan:

yeah. Totally. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, when I was younger I was actually a very, very like slim girl. but I was a teenager in the late nineties, and. I'm a little bit older than you, but that was like a very, very specific time where extreme thinness was, put on this. I like this idealism and,

Rebecca:

yeah, it was put on a pedestal.

Devora Golan:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. and even though I was like very thin growing up, I, I thought I was fat. I thought there was something wrong with me because, you know, I always had a chest, I always had hips, I always had curves. And if you weren't like this stick. Skinny, you know, ribs jutting out, you know, no, no curves at all. There was something wrong with you and you were made to believe that. Not necessarily with words, because it, it is very much more subtle. It's not like there's something wrong with you sometimes. It's just like all those little messages. And remember, this is a time we, before Photoshop, so if you saw something in a magazine, that's pretty much, yeah, there's always brush up and makeup and touch-ups, but that's pretty much the way it was. And you had to like fit into

Rebecca:

I think they were still photoshopped back then. There's for, but yeah, I know, I know what you mean.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. So, even the concept of like a perfect body or an ideal body or a summer body or a bikini body. Like it's very specific. you have to look exactly this way in order to. Be able to enjoy the summer or enjoy the, you know, wearing bathing suits or enjoy feeling like, you're beautiful because you're, you know, don't exactly fit into that, message of what beauty is, what the ideal body is. And thank God, I think that we're sort of, hopefully breaking out a little bit of that mold. but there's a lot of deep ingrained things within us that even though we know logically okay, yeah, like that, you know, there's no such thing as an ideal body. There's no such thing as, the perfect body, all those things. Logically it's because it's so deeply ingrained with us. It's upsetting. It's a lot of times hard to. Let go of those toxic messages. Even though, they're so subtle sometimes. not everyone has experienced that someone, directly said to them, you know, you can't wear this. A lot of people do, or, you know, you're fat or you are, um, need to lose weight or whatever it is. Not every single person's had that experience, but it's all those like millions of subtle messages over time that just

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

deeply ingrained in us.

Rebecca:

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think sometimes when we use certain language, like we felt not enough or there was something wrong with my body, I think people think that it's so, Direct, like someone told you that, or you felt that, or that you thought that at the time, but it wasn't something that was so conscious. It was more of this subtle underlying feeling where if you didn't feel like you fit into this beauty standard, which I don't, I don't know if I ever met a woman who felt like she did, because there's always something more that you could do. There's always a never enough. Then your mind is consumed with these thoughts of how do I get there? And comparison and nitpicking yourself. And that just hit me when you said you couldn't enjoy the summer. Well, why can't you enjoy the summer? Because your mind is consumed

Devora Golan:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

all of

Devora Golan:

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And it's like every time you pass a window or a mirror, it's like that natural. Just thinking back to when I, you know, as a teenager and early twenties, um, that like, ugh, like gross. I just saw you posted something about it and it really reminded me

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

wow, that was me. many years ago, like every time, like, it wasn't even, even have to be a mirror, like a reflection, a car window. Every time I would like accidentally pass, in some kind of reflective surface, it would be like straight to criticizing, straight to like noticing my, you know, perceived flaws. All those things. And it's such a deeply ingrained message that we're given from the time, almost time. We're like little kids. It's crazy.

Rebecca:

it's exhausting. Yeah. I made that Reel. And just for people who are listening who probably don't know what we're talking about, I made it Reel that said women be like, all bodies are beautiful. We don't judge.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

also us, and then we're looking at every single reflection. It was like me and all these different reflections, looking at myself, judging myself. Two faces. I know my teenage daughter saw that and she was like, Imma those faces,

Devora Golan:

Yeah. Exactly.

Rebecca:

Um,

Devora Golan:

And I

Rebecca:

but it's,

Devora Golan:

was young, like being together with a bunch of friends and just taking turns talking bad about things that we didn't like about ourselves. And like,

Rebecca:

yeah,

Devora Golan:

do. We would just hang out and be like, Ugh, my thighs are so fat. Ugh, I have such a big stomach. Ugh. I, you know, my double chin like, oh my God. Like, complain, complain. Like bad about ourself bad. It's so

Rebecca:

I'm not fat. You're not fat. I'm fat. Like it was just like constant.

Devora Golan:

weird. Like, is it a weird thing to think about? Like people just getting together and hanging out and complaining about themselves? That's so

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

something actually, like even before I went on this like, you know, body image journey for myself also that I,

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

I struggled for like, basically my entire life with a body image. and it had nothing to do with weight because I'm actually at my highest point now and I'm more confident than I've ever been in my life. Um,

Rebecca:

yay.

Devora Golan:

so it's really nothing to do with what the number on the scale says. it's just, how you view yourself and, that's the most important thing. But really went on from, I got, I think when I was like maybe 11, 12, it started what I can think about, uh, and maybe that's even late for some people, but I, I remember like thinking about it like.

Rebecca:

It makes sense.

Devora Golan:

Yeah, like 11, 12 up until I was almost turning 40 and I was already helping people and I was already a stylist at this time, and I was already, like you said, telling everyone else, oh, you're beautiful, you're gorgeous the way you are. Like, all those things. But I was still

Rebecca:

Uh huh.

Devora Golan:

myself. and then I

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

I think I turned 39 and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is

Rebecca:

I could have said those exact words except for the ages, but yes,

Devora Golan:

right. So I, I figured like, okay, 40 is like a really big number, you know what I mean? and then I kind of went through this a little bit of like a midlife crisis, like a mini one and like, what am I doing? And I, I decided a long time ago that I wasn't going to criticize myself out loud. Like I got married very young, had kids very young, and as soon as I was pregnant, so I was, I mean, I'm sure not like crazy, but I was 20 when I got married and had my first at 21. So.

Rebecca:

mean, that's pretty young.

Devora Golan:

No. So you

Rebecca:

That's

Devora Golan:

18,

Rebecca:

religious. I was 19. I was 19. So yeah, like we were. Okay. But it's like the same age we were babies, like our brains weren't even developed yet.

Devora Golan:

And I have, now I have kids that age. I have a 21-year-old and an almost 20-year-old, and it's like mind boggling

Rebecca:

Wow. Damn.

Devora Golan:

it's nuts. So, um, I

Rebecca:

That's,

Devora Golan:

young and I had a baby at 21. And, um, my first was a boy, my second was a girl, but it didn't matter because I knew like boys also are very much affected by what we say. People think, oh, you have to be careful the way you talk to your girls.

Rebecca:

so right.

Devora Golan:

you have to be very, but, but boys can also be affected by it, not only for how they treat their future girlfriends and wives, but also themselves, you know what I mean? Their mothers can very much affect sons as well. So as soon as I became pregnant with my first child, I made a very conscious decision and I was still very much in, in deep. In the heat of my, like, I hate my body time in my life. but I said I will make every effort to not talk badly about the way I look out loud in front of my children. So even though I still thought those things for a lot of years,

Rebecca:

Why are we like the same person? I'm just really wondering like what, like I literally feel like you're telling my story what's happening right now.

Devora Golan:

I, that's why I feel like we're so aligned.'cause there's so many things that are similar. Um, and this

Rebecca:

Totally. we should do like a collab or like some kinda workshop or something.

Devora Golan:

Yeah, we

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

should. A hundred percent. so this is even like way before the body positivity, you know, movement, all those things. But I just saw like how I grew up with my own. Family and my own, grandmother and mother, like they always felt so, you know, like, it was constant. And that's why when I say in the little subtle ways, because even if someone didn't necessarily to me like, oh, there's something wrong with you, my mother was always scrutinizing herself and always saying like, oh, you know, just, just not nice things. even to this day.

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

you know, um, like just a many conversations about weight. just, it was just a lot. And I, I didn't want that to be the message that my kids received growing up.

Rebecca:

That's amazing. I just had a conversation with my mom last night. It's funny'cause I don't, she definitely doesn't listen to my podcast so I can say this, but she was like, I just love your body image speeches. That's what she says Of like the stuff that you post on Facebook. My speeches. Yeah. And then she's like, I just thought maybe I have body image issues. I was like, oh my God.

Devora Golan:

Oh boy. You

Rebecca:

Like, it's like literally like this was yesterday, you know? I was like, oh really? And then she was like, yeah, sometimes I just think I'm so fat. And then I was like, oh. I was like, is it more usually about your size? I'm like, I probably shouldn't go into this. Like I should not be my mom's like body image coach right now, but.

Devora Golan:

mother? Probably not the best

Rebecca:

Exactly. Exactly. And then I'm like, um, is it more about size or is it about aging? She's like, no, it's always about size. And then she said something like, you know, but I'm under 120 pounds. And I realized like when she said that, I was like, oh, that's why 120 was like always in my mind.'cause we're like the same height. We're five three, we're petite. Like, our bones are small. Like we kind of have a similar, what is it called? I don't know.

Devora Golan:

Both.

Rebecca:

Body structure we're built. Yeah, exactly. and she's like, I'm 120. but you know, now I'm thinking maybe I should be strong. Like, it was just like this whole like stream of consciousness she was sharing with me and I was like, whoa. Like even after all these years, I've been doing this work for 12 years and just now she's starting to think. Maybe I don't have the best relationship with my body, or maybe this is something that I could change. And I'm not saying she's actually gonna change it, but it's just so unfortunate and so sad that people go their entire lives thinking that this is just the way that we should be or the norm.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

You know what I mean?

Devora Golan:

really sad. it's really sad and I hope that the two of us are still gonna change the world and create,

Rebecca:

Yeah. Literally

Devora Golan:

a new

Rebecca:

we need more of us.

Devora Golan:

um, not just women and girls, but also just people, boys, girls in general

Rebecca:

I love that you mentioned that, because I think it's so important. People think, oh, I have boys. I don't need to work on that. I'm like, are you kidding me? it literally impacts boys maybe in different ways, but everyone is impacted by this.

Devora Golan:

a hundred percent. 100%. and there's also this focus also with boys about their bodies. Maybe it's more like, you know, being strong and muscular as opposed to like belly fat or, big thighs. But it, it still is the same, connecting your worth and how, You know, great of a person you are and how, how much you can do and you have to accomplish with your size or your shape or the way that you look. It's, it's very much connected and it's, it's, it's

Rebecca:

Yeah, it's like

Devora Golan:

and

Rebecca:

your worth equals your appearance. Like how worthy you are, how valuable you are, how cool you are. Like it, yeah, it's like all so enmeshed and especially at those young ages, you wanna fit in and it's so easy to be like in or out and it. Kind of shapes the way we see ourselves for the rest of our lives if we're not conscious of it.

Devora Golan:

For sure. yeah. So important.

Rebecca:

So important. I wanted to ask you this kind of off subject a little bit, but do you have any like specific fashion inspiration, like shows or celebrities that you like, love their fashion? Maybe certain influencers. I mean, now you're an influencer, so you could say yourself, but I just mean, but like, you know what I mean? Like, is there someone that you're like, Ooh, like that really inspires me?

Devora Golan:

so I don't put my inspiration in one person. because people, like I said, like can dress like day to day differently. Like, I put my inspiration in, colors or styles or the way somebody shows up really. So anything that, like, you know, when a woman looks. Confident that makes me feel like, ooh, I wanna get to know that person. so I don't know if there's a, there's a specific celebrity who I say like, oh, that is the girl. this sounds like so cliche, but I, I think like every single person that I've ever met at different times inspires me in different ways. so I, I don't think if there's a person or celebrity or a designer even that I'm like, okay, that's what I wanna be. Because personal style is very personal and that's exactly what it is. So just because it looks amazing on one person and it works for one person doesn't mean it's the exact right thing for you. So I really take

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

from like everything around me. I take an inspiration from nature.

Rebecca:

that.

Devora Golan:

take inspiration from, interior design, you know, when I see like a, a beautiful like. Store set up like the

Rebecca:

Right,

Devora Golan:

you know what I mean? And those are, all things that inspire me. Like,

Rebecca:

right.

Devora Golan:

blue

Rebecca:

I guess it would be like,

Devora Golan:

me to like, come up with a new outfit or come up with a new look. So it's not necessarily a specific celebrity or designer or, um, specific person. I really draw inspiration from everything and everyone. and I really like, I just, I see beauty everywhere and I really just get inspired by all of it.

Rebecca:

hmm. I would probably have the exact same answer if someone said, is there a photographer that really inspires you? So that makes a lot of sense. I just was

Devora Golan:

a

Rebecca:

watching,

Devora Golan:

of

Rebecca:

um.

Devora Golan:

you know, like there's like all the celebrities, all the models, that I, wanted to be just like, but I think like once I went on this healing journey with my body and myself, I don't feel like there's like this ideal body anymore, ideal person. So it's not really one, or even a few people that have inspired me. It's really everything because there's so much beauty everywhere. So I think that was a drastic change. like I said, I turned 39, I was almost 40, and I said, okay, something has to change because I'm not talking

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

myself out loud, but I'm still having these thoughts and the daily scrutiny and like, how could I hide this thing that I don't like? How can I make myself look slimmer? How can I make myself, just look smaller today? and I, I said like, that's it. I'm not gonna live my life like this. Enough is enough, you know? And like.

Rebecca:

I feel like for you, a big part of it was literally just making that decision. You were just like, Nope, I'm not doing that.

Devora Golan:

Right. And a lot of it came

Rebecca:

I.

Devora Golan:

it wasn't like hate to love in one day. It wasn't like this, like, oh, that's

Rebecca:

Of course.

Devora Golan:

It was more from a place of like, I'm, I'm done, being so hateful to myself and I just wanted to like, accept myself. the body. Love came much later. It was more the acceptance. And I think that's, that's an okay first step. You don't have to go from like

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

hate to body love in one minute.

Rebecca:

Well, that's not possible. It's not possible to just wake up one day and feel totally confident,

Devora Golan:

be like, okay with everything, like, just stop talking. So

Rebecca:

neutral.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. Body neutrality, I guess. Like, just like be fine with it. Like, I've tried so many diets. I've you know, lost weight, gained weight, lost weight, gained weight, had five kids. and this is just the way my body wants to be right now. I'm not gonna be, know, that, that, 120 pound girl that I was when I got married.

Rebecca:

Oh my God. I even don't even like saying like numbers because there's so much association with it for everyone. It's like a hundred, what? What are you talking about? You know what I mean? It's like,

Devora Golan:

so

Rebecca:

yeah, I get that.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

It's ridiculous. I don't even know how much I weigh. I haven't weighed myself in years. Like

Devora Golan:

like,

Rebecca:

that was one.

Devora Golan:

means nothing. I also got rid of my scale when I decided, like, body acceptance. I, I haven't weighed myself in like four years.

Rebecca:

Wow.

Devora Golan:

so

Rebecca:

don't need

Devora Golan:

what's,

Rebecca:

can even opt out of it at the doctor's office. They can take your blood test, they can do a bunch of other things. That's just one measurement, and it really isn't so correlated with health as we think. It's just this measurement that, at least for me, for most of my life, was a measurement of my worth, and I was done with that.

Devora Golan:

Exactly. So I think that's like a really good first step because think people sometimes get frustrated like, oh, I just don't love my body. You know, I, I see all these flaws and I see all these things. Like, that's totally fine. you don't have to make that gigantic leap, you know? And like, I still have days, like, I'm not, like, I'm not perfect. Like, I'm not, like, I never think

Rebecca:

What

Devora Golan:

You know, like people, people say like, oh, how do you have so much confidence? Like I do because I worked really hard on it. It doesn't come naturally necessarily. I worked really, really hard on it and it was like a long process and it's not, I think like people, had this misconception like once you, like, are there, like you get there in everything, in body image, in, any personal self-growth. you go on this healing journey and then you made it and you're done. It's like,

Rebecca:

you hear Heels?

Devora Golan:

really work that way, you know what I

Rebecca:

No.

Devora Golan:

So

Rebecca:

A hundred

Devora Golan:

the

Rebecca:

percent.

Devora Golan:

thing is to have the tools to, see yourself in certain ways and if you go in a little bit of a funk and if you see yourself going down that, that downhill slope, have the tools to get yourself back up to the place where you should be. But like a journey doesn't mean like, okay, up, up, up, up, you're there. It's also could be like, know what I mean? Like that, like up and down, up and down hill. And that's totally normal and okay.

Rebecca:

Yeah. I mean, I think it's more than even just normal and Okay. It's just part of it. Like there isn't just a linear growth, which just keeps going up, up and up. Life is life and life does what it does, and things will ebb and flow and different things will be presented to us and different things will trigger us. And I mean, I know for me at least, like. The war has been very difficult. Like this has been two years, is it two years now?

Devora Golan:

Almost two years. It's crazy.

Rebecca:

of hell. Like literally of hell. And every single day you don't know what you're gonna wake up to in the news or what sirens you're gonna have. And everything's so uncertain. And it definitely impacted my sense of self and my own personal healing journey. And I've spoken with a lot of women who have told me that they are now looking in the mirror and they're like, wait, I thought I dealt with this stuff before. Like why are all these things coming up again? And I think specifically with body image, it feels like it's something that you can control. Even though you and I both know that like you can't control your body. Your body does what it does, right? or you can try to control it, but like at a huge cost. And it feels like something you can control, like you're eating and exercising and the way other people perceive you, which you also can't control that, but it feels like it for some reason. And so I think that when everything feels so chaotic and so out of control, it makes sense that a lot of women would go back to body image struggles. And how I like to see it and help my clients with it is that it's not that they're going backwards, it's that it's coming up again for a reason and it's coming up again actually as an opportunity for you to just go deeper.

Devora Golan:

I think sometimes it almost feels safer to people to be

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

than actually enjoy themselves for how they are. You know, it almost feels

Rebecca:

Hundred.

Devora Golan:

right thing to do. Like, wait, I'm not supposed to feel so great about myself all the time like that, that feels like wrong. You know what I mean? So,

Rebecca:

Like vain or like egotistical or something.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. I would actually, I know I'm on your podcast, but I would love to turn around on you and ask you what would you say to someone, or what do you do personally when you find yourself slipping into the, you know, triggered or being critical of yourself? Um, what is something that really

Rebecca:

Mm-hmm.

Devora Golan:

you get out of that slump?

Rebecca:

Hmm. I feel like I'm the queen of this'cause it's also something that. I struggle with beyond body image. I have anxiety and depression and so I definitely go through waves. Thankfully I have a lot of tools and I've been on this healing journey for a long time. So I think the main thing that helps me is knowing that it's temporary and that it's not gonna be like this forever. That helps so much. Even just that mindset. And this is not my life forever now. I'm not gonna just think of myself this way or be in this slump.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

and if there's anything body image related, like looking in the mirror, I automatically know that it's not about the exterior thing cause I've just. Done this work for so long. I'm like, I know it's not about like I'll look at my face and see more wrinkles or like bags under my eyes or something like that. Or I'll have a thought that I had before. And first of all, thoughts are just thoughts. They don't need to mean anything about our healing journey or who we are and it makes sense that will come up, right? So I, I know that. but generally the first thing that I think about is how can I love myself right now? And it's not just let's go to positive affirmations but how can I physically take care of myself in a nourishing way, not to change my body, not to change the way I look, but how can I help myself feel different?

Devora Golan:

Right.

Rebecca:

And I know that when I take care of myself from that place of self love. I changed, first of all, the way I see myself because I'm that person that is loving on myself and taking care of myself. And that in itself is very empowering.

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

But it definitely impacts how you see your physical appearance too. When you are taking care of yourself and you feel good physically in your body, it changes how you see yourself in the mirror. Does that make sense?

Devora Golan:

totally. Yeah.

Rebecca:

But not from like, oh, I'm gonna lose weight. It's just literally like, I'm gonna get sleep, I'm gonna start drinking water. I go to like literally the basics, like making sure I'm getting my two liters of water and not just drinking throughout the day, like being intentional about it, making sure I'm sleeping, making sure I'm getting sunlight, maybe journaling a little bit, being social with friends, like all the things that I really know, nourish my mind and my body and my soul.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. Wow. I love that. That's amazing. That's really like a holistic approach. I love that.

Rebecca:

Yeah, totally. What do you do?

Devora Golan:

Um, so I also make sure that like I've eaten and eating and drinking is a big one for me. Um, sleeping, I would love to say control that, but unfortunately there's outside factors that, that don't always get enough sleep. Um, you know, my kids are big, so it's not like I have babies anymore. But like, like you mentioned, like the war, you know, there was many weeks we were waking up at like three in the morning every night, and it was really, it was almost like, you know, like, like torture in prison sounds like, it sounds very, very like brutal, but like it's true. you can't really get comfortable because then I was like. should I, should I stay up to like, you know, not have to wake up in the middle of the night or, you know, you finally get comfortable and it's like, oh, it's too late. They're not gonna do it tonight. And then, it happens at like five in the morning and it's like, ugh. you know what I mean? So sleep has been a

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

one, but, um, I definitely make sure like, oh, did I, did I eat today? Did I drink enough today? And that's why you see me with my Be Wild Water. I've been on this new campaign

Rebecca:

Amazing

Devora Golan:

be drinking constantly throughout the day.

Rebecca:

campaign. I love it.

Devora Golan:

it's, well, that's what I call it.'cause otherwise it won't work. Like, it has to be like a thing that I'm doing. And then, and then like, because for me, like clothing is really just, that's my tool. I decide how I would like to feel, even if it's like, okay, I'm feeling like, very tight in my body right now.'cause like, I don't like the way I look and you feel it, you know what I mean? If you feel like you're

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

tense up. So. At first, I take a deep breath, and this is something I, I've taught my kids also to do, and it sounds so trivial and small, but like breathing really helps. And I'm not even talking about complicated breathing exercise. I'm literally just talking about like

Rebecca:

Literally just breathing in your nose.

Devora Golan:

hold it, let it out like in a couple of those. So I literally just feel my nervous system calming down. Just really simple. Nothing like crazy breathing, meditating, just a couple of like big, deep full body breaths. And I'm like, okay,

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

what is the purpose of this right now? why am I doing this? and then I use my favorite tool and I say, why am I feeling this and what would I like to feel? You know what I mean? So it doesn't necessarily erase the feelings, but it definitely gives me that like big jump to, know. I always say like, feelings are not permanent markers. You know what I mean? just because you're feeling a certain way, you have the ability to change it. And it's not toxic positivity. It's not, oh, everything's great, everything's wonderful all the time. But I really believe that we are able to change our own minds and our own mindset. and we can decide how we wanna feel. And it doesn't always work, but like I said before, I use my outfit as a visual Pinterest board, a visual mindset tool. and that is how I'm like, okay, this is how I want to feel, even if I don't necessarily feel that way right now. like for example, like bright colors, it just is scientifically proven

Rebecca:

Um.

Devora Golan:

you know, improve your mood. Something that like, I know like material feels really like soft on my body. you know, just certain fabrics the way certain, things lay or certain things fit me and I just feel like. Huh. I just feel like a physical, calm, and then I'm really able to, redirect my thoughts and emotions and say like, okay, we've done this before. We can do this again. You know what I mean?

Rebecca:

Totally. Yeah.

Devora Golan:

like, you know, just because I'm in this bad place now doesn't mean this has to be for the rest of the day or for the rest of the week, or for whatever, how long period is. and this is how I want to feel, and so I, I do that physical, act of putting on an outfit that I love and makes me feel amazing. And it just, it just recenters it, it just like helps me redirect my, my mind and my goals and my ideas. And I'm like, okay, we got this. We can do

Rebecca:

Yeah. I think also probably one of the things that has helped both of us is the fact that we've expanded our own definition of beauty. So that never really goes away. Like once you redefine what you think is beautiful and start expanding it and seeing the beauty in different people's sizes and shapes, and even just things around you, and really intentionally seeing the beauty in things, it does come back at you. So even when I think of times when I'm not feeling as good about myself, it's just not the same anymore.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

I mean, I really struggle with certain things, like I'm not perfect either, you know? But. In terms of specifically weight, which was my big thing for many, many years. And what I, you know, I grew up seven years old and I already was like, oh, I shouldn't be seen in a bathing suit, or, my body's too big for, I was already comparing myself at such a young age.

Devora Golan:

very sad.

Rebecca:

is pretty much, it's so sad, but that is pretty much not a thing anymore because of my work that I have done for myself. And I help my clients with changing the way that I actually see beauty, because I just think that's so important. it'd be very easy to revert back to like, I'm so fat and ugly, quote unquote,

Devora Golan:

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca:

I thought that fat would, but I just don't think that,

Devora Golan:

right.

Rebecca:

you know.

Devora Golan:

Yeah. think that I also, shifted my perspective back to that like ideal body and like that our differences is actually what makes us beautiful and like what we can use

Rebecca:

Exactly.

Devora Golan:

flaws or imperfections. I'm actually wearing a bracelet today. I dunno if you can see it. It says perfectly imperfect.

Rebecca:

Oh, I love that.

Devora Golan:

like, that's how I feel you know, like everyone has things that they don't necessarily love about themselves, but like, if everyone looked exactly the same, then there would be no beauty then because like beauty, you know, is something special or something different or something interesting. Like that's what beauty is. At least, that's what I think of it as. If everyone looked

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

the same and had the exact size 2 whatever body and exactly the same face. Like I even, you know, with all the Botox we see now, and I, I'm not. Whatever anyone

Rebecca:

Yeah. That's.

Devora Golan:

That is, that is fine. You know, I'm, you know, non-judgmental at all in that way, but it does kind of make people look exactly the same, you know what I mean? Like, it, everyone has this, like

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

this face and it it bothers me. I'm like, you don't look real. You look like this, like doll. You know? And it's kind of a little bit taking away, like what makes people beautiful? Because if everyone has like the same structure and the same things and the no wrinkles and no spots,

Rebecca:

Right.

Devora Golan:

that's what makes us special. You know what I mean? Like, that's

Rebecca:

What's the, what's the story like, I see people's like stars and wrinkles and the differences, and I'm like, I wanna know about them. I'm curious about them. Tell me your

Devora Golan:

I've actually started naming my wrinkles like not.

Rebecca:

them. Oh my gosh.

Devora Golan:

Like, not necessarily actual names, but like the time in my life that they appeared, which isn't, which people would

Rebecca:

Wow.

Devora Golan:

oh, that's a bad thing. Like, no, like, I went through that and like, you know, now I'm, I'm good and like we're in a better

Rebecca:

I. That's so cool.

Devora Golan:

like this one, like I have my Corona wrinkle and like, these are my war wrinkles and like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like battle scars

Rebecca:

Oh my God.

Devora Golan:

like war wounds.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

you know, um, when I had my babies, I used to be so, so insecure about stretch marks on my stomach,

Rebecca:

Yeah, yeah.

Devora Golan:

problem area, which I was most insecure about is my stomach. And now I had these stretch

Rebecca:

Thank you.

Devora Golan:

nobody saw my stomach. Like, it wasn't like, I was wearing, like crop tops that everyone's gonna see my stomach and I'm no longer, it's just like I felt so Bad about myself and I felt like I was blemished and, you know, all, something was wrong with me, that I had these marks and they were never gonna go away. But then, like, I completely reframed it for myself and I'm like, these are battle scars. Like I had five babies. I went through that. Like, how amazing am I? And now I have the marks to prove it, like, awesome. You know what I mean? So I think it's, you know,

Rebecca:

I love that. I love that reframe.

Devora Golan:

it's a lot of it is reframing in your mind and once you can view this very same thing as either a negative thing or you can spin it to a positive thing. and that's sort of

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

to live my life.

Rebecca:

Someone recently said to me, skin is the new thin, and I was like, whoa. You might be right.

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

you are. Like

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

you said, it's not that there's a judgment on individual people for making those choices. I mean, even the opposite. It's so understandable. I get it. This is a society that we live in, but society as a whole, what bothers me is that. This is now the new standard.

Devora Golan:

right. Like almost if you don't take care of it, like take care of your wrinkles, like what's wrong with you?

Rebecca:

Exactly.

Devora Golan:

yeah, I think it might be, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it's maybe a little bit less in Israel than in America and certain other places definitely is here, but I think like it's less,

Rebecca:

in the more religious community like you live in Beit Shemesh, right?

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

you live in Beit Shemesh. I live in Efrat it is also a religious community and I find that there's still pressures for sure, and people are for sure still doing plastic surgery and Botox and things like that. but I do think a little bit less, but I think there are certain places in Israel Where there is more pressure and and standards in that way. And then Yeah, for sure. America, like my clients there, the stories that they tell me, I'm just like,

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

wow. it's like what's wrong with you if you don't do something, but more than that, like you're on the outside

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

like really going against the grain by not doing those things.

Devora Golan:

I mean, it almost feels like steps backwards in a way like that we've made so much, you know, improvement on like, bigger bodies being shown, and celebrated in a lot of ways. But then, certain other things, like, not that it's completely gone, of course, like there's a lot of biases and a lot of, you know, things.

Rebecca:

No. And also now with like, Ozempic and all the accessibility to all those things, I think that. I don't know, like I'm just, I'm a little bit in crisis mode. I'm like, what happened to body positivity? Like,

Devora Golan:

Yeah,

Rebecca:

bring it back. and I don't even know if I love the term body positivity, but you know what I mean? Like, it's not, it's less of a thing these days.

Devora Golan:

What would you call it? If you were gonna

Rebecca:

I,

Devora Golan:

it and not body positivity, what would you, what would you rather call it?

Rebecca:

uh, that's a good question. I have like four stages of growth and it starts with body hatred and it goes to radical body love. So

Devora Golan:

Hmm.

Rebecca:

I like that. I really like the idea of body love. but I don't, I don't like the idea of it as a movement in general. It's a personal journey, you know what I mean? Like I think that what I don't love about body positivity is that it became this movement. And in some ways, like if you look online and you, start to follow certain people, like, it's more inclusive of some people, but then less inclusive of others. All of a sudden it's like celebrating bigger bodies but then shaming smaller bodies. And I think that's literally doing the same thing. It's not moving anyway. And then after October 7th as well, the body positivity movement, I'm sure you saw with all the influencers, it was super anti-Israel. I was like, wait, so everybody deserves to feel good about their bodies except Jewish women. Like it just didn't feel actually inclusive. It

Devora Golan:

Yeah, it's very frustrating. Even, the last like week or so, I, follow a few nutritionists, on Instagram, and they didn't post anything at all, the whole war. And just this last week they posted something about starvation and how it's all Israel's fault. And I was like, come on, you too, like, really, like, I thought we were good.

Rebecca:

really also now, like I followed you for all this time and now like Oh,

Devora Golan:

Like you were fine. Like you didn't say anything either way, which is fine. Not every single person should be a political activist. That's not, you know, if you're a nutrition expert

Rebecca:

I agree.

Devora Golan:

a fitness expert, you don't need to be commenting on every single war that doesn't affect you at all. You know, that's perfectly fine.

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

all of a

Rebecca:

yeah.

Devora Golan:

To post this thing. I was like, a disappointment. Like, come on, we were in a good

Rebecca:

Yeah. Yeah.

Devora Golan:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

People are just so willfully misinformed. You know?

Devora Golan:

Right, right.

Rebecca:

I, I hope that's like on the better end of the spectrum. And then of course there's lots of antis. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I feel like everything that we've spoken about has been so important, and I relate to pretty much everything that you're saying. And one of the things that I feel like keeps coming up is just like your willingness to be that person that goes against the grain that does something a little bit different, that decides to have a different mindset than what the world has handed to you. And people might not be watching this. They don't see how colorful you are and how, you know, unique and fun. You should definitely check out her Instagram because it's just full of color and font fashion. But you definitely stand out and I feel like you don't shy away from that. Was that hard for you? I mean, given your, given your story, it wasn't that you always felt that way, but what was that evolution like and is that easy for you to do today? Or is it something that is still a dialogue in your mind?

Devora Golan:

So it's easy for me today to do that. Yes, I, probably not the answer you wanna hear, but that's

Rebecca:

No, I want to hear that. I'm glad.

Devora Golan:

it took a long time to get to this place. but like, I, like, you know, growing up I, like I said, I was very quiet, I was very shy, I was very timid. I was the kind of, you know, girl in class that like the teacher, please don't call on me. Please don't call on me.'cause I didn't dare wanna speak in class in front of, I didn't have big class, I had like 12 kids in my class growing up. But like, I didn't wanna be seen, I didn't wanna be like, you know, um, not picked on but like singled out. Like I never wanted to be the one to stand out. And it's so interesting'cause that's a complete, complete shift, a complete 180 to how I am now. but I think like once I went through when I was a teenager, this process of like becoming that person who I always wanted to be, I always wanted to be that outgoing girl, but I was so shy and quiet. I always wanted to be the cool girl. I always wanted to like be that person, but I was terrified of doing the wrong thing. and standing out and, you know, getting noticed for the wrong reasons and not the right reasons and all those things. and I think like I, I discovered very, very early on, and that's why I'm so passionate about helping, people find their magic inside themselves and bring it to the surface is because, like you've touched on it a little bit before, just because like you've been a certain way your whole life doesn't mean you have to always be that way. If you could, aspire for more, you could dream bigger, what would that look like and how do we get there? You know what I mean? And I

Rebecca:

Oh yeah.

Devora Golan:

Right. And then like, I, I think so I, I really discovered from a young age when I turned like 15, 16 and I started dressing, you know, very on trend at that time. Like, walking Delia's magazine. I don't know if you remember in the

Rebecca:

Oh my gosh.

Devora Golan:

yeah, I mean, be like, okay, I want that, I'll put that, I'll put that and like just basically copy paste, which I highly discourage now. But I did then and I sort of, started getting the attention, like not in a bad way that I was like standing out, but people would genuinely start conversations with me'cause I looked interesting. So it was like a really good way to start expressing myself before I had the words to express myself and before I had the ability to approach other people. it was like this bridge from like that really timid, shy girl to like that cool, outgoing. You know, doesn't care what anybody else think person that I wanted to be. And so I learned the power of style really, really early. And even though it was a really small town, and I said, people don't really judge, um, you were like a little different, people did judge. People were like, oh, like she like going off the derech? Or you know, like, I'm not gonna go to that whole

Rebecca:

Yeah. Yeah.

Devora Golan:

You know, why is she like dressing so wild? And I was totally covered, mind you, like I was, it wasn't like pushing

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

boundaries. I was fully, fully covered. I actually have a story that like we still talk about today in my family. That kind of was like moment, um, that my parents like had, you know, my parents were actually very modern orthodox. They were very open, but like certain rules they would stick to. Like, they, they didn't want me to wear pants. They didn't want me to wear, you know, short sleeves, certain things. and then there was this skirt. It was like a black skirt with like rainbows down the side. I don't know if you remember like that style, but it was very in style at the time, and I desperately wanted to get it. And my mom said it was like too out there. It was too much. Like I couldn't do it even though it was, it was a long skirt. Mind you, it was totally covered,

Rebecca:

Um,

Devora Golan:

it like stood out.

Rebecca:

it was too tight or it stood out like it wasn't

Devora Golan:

like, it was just like

Rebecca:

up.

Devora Golan:

black skirt. It was a black skirt with rainbows on the side.

Rebecca:

Got it.

Devora Golan:

wasn't like

Rebecca:

it.

Devora Golan:

like, you know, if you're not, don't like, follow the way everyone does things, people look at you like, Hmm, like, what's going

Rebecca:

Yeah,

Devora Golan:

Even if you're totally still within the boundaries that I, you know, was raised in.

Rebecca:

even in the most accepting communities, humans are humans and humans judge.

Devora Golan:

So I think once I reached that point, that I was like, no, this is such a big way to express myself like, even though I dunno how to, you know, speak well, or I'm not, eloquent with my words or I dunno how to approach people. This is my expression and this is how I'm able to say like, this is who I am before I open my mouth and say, you know, I'm able to say that I was able to dress that way. And that's how I sort of like, formed this mindset that, I went from not wanting to stand out and to try to like, you know, shrink myself and never be seen to specifically wanna be seen and specifically say like, no, look at me. This is who I'm not in a bad way, not in a,

Rebecca:

like took it on kind of as like a challenge or like something that you knew it was outside of your comfort zone, but you felt like there was something in it for you?

Devora Golan:

Yeah, because I, I knew like that was the means to become the person who I wanted to be. You know what I mean?

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

so I, I took that very seriously and started helping other people, even like, you know, at, at that young age and I started helping friends, get a little bit more outside their comfort zone. I always say that growth begins outside your comfort zone, you know what I mean? It doesn't always feel good to like, go through this journey. Sometimes it feels like not good. Sometimes it feels uncomfortable because it's much easier to stay in that place where you are. So I think standing out and getting dressed, even if it's a really small thing, even if it's like. a shoe or a, an accessory or you know, a statement necklace that you wouldn't always wear. It's like one tiny step forward and you can build on that and build on that and build on that. And then eventually you become that person that you wanna be. and it's like, it's not just an internal, mindset and, you know, internal work that you do inside yourself is actually bringing it out into the world so other people

Rebecca:

Mm-hmm.

Devora Golan:

importantly, you notice and you act differently and you show up differently. and that sort of became a theme in my life. Like, when I say like bedavka, like, I don't mean like to draw attention to myself in a haughty way, it's just more like, I want to go into a room and someone say like, Ooh, she looks interesting. Like, I wanna get to know her. Not in a superficial way, just like it's just like that, that first. That first thing, that first step.

Rebecca:

Well, it's probably because you know deeply that you have a lot to offer the world, and when we stay small and we hide and shrink, we don't get to offer as much to the world.

Devora Golan:

So

Rebecca:

I think it's like being connected to.

Devora Golan:

exactly. Yes, that was exactly what I was gonna say. I would tell someone like, you know, the next generation, the girls of today, to not shrink yourself and to not fit into someone else's box and to express yourself and be exactly who you wanna be. And don't be afraid to take up space and don't be afraid to like, raise a couple eyebrows, but not in a, not in a bad way, meaning just like, oh, that's different because, those people who change the world, you know what I mean? People who change the world are not

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

stay in their lane. You know, the people who

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

and don't shrink themselves, are people who think differently and think outside the box and decide to be outside the box. So I think that's why,

Rebecca:

Right.

Devora Golan:

much not afraid and it, it very much comes naturally after all this time. Back to your original question,

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

stand out and to be bold, because I think that's like, you know, every, everyone should be doing that. Not necessarily, I'm not saying everyone has to be dressed in the exact same way. That's, that's the whole point of personal style because it's what is important to you and what do you wanna bring out, what do you wanna bring forward? And then you know how to express that.

Rebecca:

Right. I mean because it's really connected to your Tikkun, your purpose in the world. And I think everybody has, I mean, I know everybody has their own personal Tikkun purpose for people who don't know what Tikkun is. and everyone has something where they think about it in a little bit of a different way and it's just so easy to like conform to what is, and I think what you're doing is helping people just. Give themselves that permission to be their authentic, bold, unapologetic self. And like you said, not just to turn heads. Sure. Maybe turning heads could be fun, but also because that's really who they are. I think a lot of people could translate what you're saying into fake it till you make it. Like just dress the part and you'll be the person. But I don't think that's what it is for you. I don't know if you resonate, but for you, you made a decision to wear certain things which were closer to who you actually are. It wasn't that you were conforming and trying to fake it and trying to be a certain way. You were like, no, this is actually more me and now I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna do something external so that it helps me. Become that person, but it's not faking it till, right?

Devora Golan:

it's, it's more like I, it's like alignment, you know, like it's, it's like the it,

Rebecca:

Yes.

Devora Golan:

It's make it till you make it. You know what I mean? It's not necessarily, it's fake until you make it. It's like,

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

you're

Rebecca:

Love that.

Devora Golan:

meaning, like even if you're not there yet, but like, that's who you are inside. It's just you're not necessarily there, but like, you know, you could be, or you know, you could get there. So like,

Rebecca:

Mm-hmm.

Devora Golan:

present yourself now. That's not the same as fake until you make it. That's why I say make it till you make it. So like, sometimes your outside appearance can go first and then you have to sort of like, catch up a little bit. But you can catch up and it's a lot, sometimes

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

to catch up when you are, you know, acting or dressing the part. And it's, it's not faking, it's just

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

being and it's becoming. So,

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

so that's what

Rebecca:

A hundred percent.

Devora Golan:

emphasize. It's about, showing the world who you are inside. you know, that, that's what I say, like I wanna walk into the room and people say, oh, she's interesting because interesting. I know I'm interesting. So like, why not show it to the

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Devora Golan:

not show people? And that's not a haughty thing, that's not an arrogant thing. Everyone should feel like they have, amazing qualities because everyone does. Everyone has their own magic and their own superpowers. So why not show it to the world? And even if you're not quite there yet, emotionally and in your mind, show it anyway. You know what I mean? Do it anyway. Do it scared, because once you, you start doing it, then the emotional and mindset part can catch up a lot, a lot quicker. Whereas the fact if you're, you're holding it in and you're hiding and it's like, I'm not ready for that yet. I'm not, I'm not there yet. If I just need to be, you know, a little more successful, make a little more money, like grow a little more in my healing, um, journey. Yeah. Lose weight, you know, work on my body image, all those things. you don't have to be exactly ready and exactly there to act like you're ready and there because I think there's, you know, the, there's a, a disconnect sometimes and I, I think like, you know, start acting how you wanna be before you're there, before you're actually ready. portray yourself as ready and act ready and then you become ready a lot faster. so that, that's how I use getting dressed and that's how I use, deciding how we wanna feel every day with our outfits and dressing with intention. and, you know, dressing in alignments as not, definitely not a fake it till you make it, but, becoming and, and become it till you make it, you know? I dunno if

Rebecca:

Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. that's one of my journal prompts for myself and share it with my clients as well, is how can I show up as my future self today?

Devora Golan:

Exactly, that's exactly, that's what I'm like a broken record saying future self because that's exactly what I would love to do for, for my clients and for, for everyone I work with and everyone I meet,

Rebecca:

Ya, because you did it and you, you know, the freedom and you know how it feels. Incredible.

Devora Golan:

right.

Rebecca:

Thank you so much for coming on today. I had the best time and I'm so, so excited for everyone to hear what you have to say and I hope that people get a lot from this. I know that they will.

Devora Golan:

Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.

Rebecca:

Where can people find you?

Devora Golan:

Okay. So I am on Instagram and Facebook and also LinkedIn at Devora Golan. It's just my name, no H in the Devora, D-E-V-O-R-A-G-O-L-A-N. And I

Rebecca:

Amazing.

Devora Golan:

all this good stuff on my pages and I would love to help you. I would love to chat.

Rebecca:

Amazing. I love that. Thank you again. This has been amazing. I'm sure it'll be one of many conversations and yeah, I just appreciate you.

Devora Golan:

Thank you. Same.