The Body Image Revolution
Raw, unfiltered conversations about what it really takes to love your reflection, feel sexy in your skin, and build a legacy of radical self-love for yourself and future generations - without the toxic positivity or any of the BS.
Hosted by body confidence coach and boudoir photographer, Rebecca Sigala.
The Body Image Revolution
Real Talk With Body Image Therapist Lucie Vallée
Today I’m joined by body image therapist Lucie Vallée for a powerful and honest conversation about the heart of this work - what we love, what challenges us, and how we support women on their healing journeys.
Lucie shares the pivotal moment that sparked her own body image healing, what recovery looked like for her, and how that personal transformation now shapes her work with clients. We explore body neutrality vs. body love, what it’s like to show up online in this space, and the truths we wish every woman knew about her body.
This one’s full of real talk, reflection, and gentle insight. We hope it lands exactly where you need it.
Follow Lucie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucievalleebodyimage
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https://www.instagram.com/rebeccasigalastudio
Hello, my loves Welcome back to the Body Image Revolution. Today I'm joined by Body Image Therapist, Lucie Vallée, and I am so, so excited for you to hear this conversation. It was such a joy just to sit down with somebody else in my same field talk shop, share our personal journeys and stories around our bodies, explore the experiences of our clients and our friends, and society and what it's like to show up online in this space of body love and body positivity. We also dove into topics like body neutrality versus body love, and just so many different things. Lucie's content really stood out to me when I saw it online. It offered this perspective that I don't often see, and it felt super aligned with my own and so refreshing, and this conversation did not disappoint. It was very insightful and inspiring, and we both got off the call just being like, there is hope in the world, and I hope you feel the same way too after you listen. Enjoy. Hello, Lucie, thank you so much for being here today. I'm really excited to have you. I was scrolling along Instagram and I found your page, and I don't often really connect and relate to a lot of other practitioners and people in the body image space, but when I started going through your content, I was like, this is amazing. It was so inspirational and nuanced and I was just excited to have a conversation with you. So I'm really excited to meet you and have you here today.
Lucie :Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here Also.
Rebecca:Great. now everybody gets to witness our very first conversation. You are a body image therapist. Correct? how would you describe what you do?
Lucie :yeah. I am a body image therapist, so I work with people and I help them break away from any negative pattern they might have around food or their bodies basically. So I work mainly with women on body image issues, eating disorders or anything that is connected to body image.
Rebecca:Incredible. Was there a moment on your own journey that you could pinpoint that really led you to what you do today?
Lucie :Oh, there are so many moments. Uh, yeah. It's hard to. Yeah, I guess, I guess our whole lives, yeah. Would be a good answer. I think a moment that I often go back to was the moment when I decided to heal myself. I, I also come from a background of having a really big eating disorder that lasted really 10 years, I would say. And I think there was a moment where I decided to get out of that, which would be the moment I would pinpoint it was, um, maybe seven years ago. So I had this eating disorder and for me I had a lot of shame around that. It was a bit my hidden secret and I remember going to lunch with, a couple friends of mine. There were two other women there. And in that lunch I slowly realized that these two other women also had some sort of eating disorder that was kind of a secret, and it was a moment we kind of revealed that to each other. And it really hit me in that moment that actually a lot more women than we think have problems with food, with their body image. And we all carry that secretly in shame. And that was really a day where I connected the dots. I talked to my mom and I realized also how much she was talking about food and just all the women around me. And I think that was a moment I was like, okay, I'm gonna heal myself. I'm gonna understand that. And that's what launched my journey into healing myself and then changing my career to become myself a therapist and wanting to. You know, contribute to solving this problem.
Rebecca:That's amazing. It really reminds me of one of my own moments where I was early on in my career as a boudoir photographer, and it was the same type of thing where, you know, I am seeing these beautiful, incredible, and powerful women, and we all know that women talk about their bodies and they complain about this and that. But we don't really understand what's going on inside of their head or what kind of narrative they have with themselves and when I started working with women, I kind of got a closer look at that, and I was shocked to see how many women struggle with this, that it's pretty much universal, whether it's food, body image, of course that's very interconnected. but it was also a moment for me of like, wow, I'm really not alone in this.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that.
Rebecca:And then it's like, if I'm not alone in it, there's a comfort in it. But then it makes you really want it to be different. How can we actually change this for ourselves, but also for other women?
Lucie :Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah. That's really behind everything I do. I'm, I'm really passionate about this topic, you know, so I, I completely connect to what you just said. Yeah.
Rebecca:people often say that once you have an eating disorder, you always have that eating disorder mindset. And in my work, I found that not to be true, and I'm curious what your experience with that is,
Lucie :well, I also don't think that is true, and I think that's a really interesting question that I get quite often when I start working with a new person. There will be disbelief in this idea that healing is possible. So a lot of women come in the first session and will tell me, is it even possible to heal from this? And they say that because of our culture at large, you know, media, social media, just the mindset that you see. On those platforms and also I guess the people around them. And I think a lot of women do not have an example in their surroundings of a woman that has a good relationship to their body that feels properly healed. So I, I hear this disbelief also in this idea that it is possible to like yourself, to like your body, which, when you think about, it's quite sad that a lot of women have normalized this idea of it is normal for a woman to have some dissatisfaction with her body. It is not possible to love yourself. But I, I don't think that's true. I experienced it for myself. Like I really got to a point where I don't have this eating disorder thoughts. I feel really good in my body. Actually, I would say like a high point that happened to me recently was I was just hanging out with my fiance and we were just talking about dinner or something, and then he turned to me and he's like, wow, like you really have a better body image than even me, I think. And it never was a topic for him. And that was really a moment I was like, wow. I never thought anyone would say that to me in my whole life. And so I just think it, I just think it is really possible to let go of these thoughts, to feel good in your body, to fully exist with your body, you know? Um, so no, I don't agree. I don't agree. You, you have that mindset forever.
Rebecca:I think that's one of the things that I might say, I don't know, feels like a hundred times a week, that it is possible to, first of all, even change your perspective on your body, but also what you're saying is heal your relationship with your body. And of course it's an ever evolving journey and there's always room to grow. And we live in a society that is throwing things at us in terms of diet, culture, and beauty standards all the time. So it's not just like, oh, you push a button, I'm healed. But exactly what you described is not having that mind chatter. Feeling comfortable in your skin, seeing yourself in a completely different way. It's so hard to convey that to people that it's possible. And I think it's probably, I don't know if you would agree with me, but it's probably one of the biggest blocks to women starting this journey.
Lucie :Yeah. Yeah, I would say that, I would say the fact that our culture normalizes so much, this idea that it is a normal part of womanhood to not like your body, to constantly diet, to be worried about how you look like, you see little clues of that everywhere. Like, you know, just look at some movies like the romantic comedies, I think are, you see that's so big. You know, the bottom of the joke is always that the woman is dieting or she's worried about how she's gonna look. It's just everywhere. So a lot of us have internalized this idea, okay, this is my life, this is how I'm gonna live. I'm just gonna not like myself, and I just have to live with that.
Rebecca:Right,
Lucie :Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:and a lot of people don't even see it as a problem because it's so normalized. It's just how they are. so, if they feel confident in other areas of their lives, they don't really think of themselves as struggling with their body image. Where do you think that most women or most of your clients come to you? Like what stage are they at when they reach out to you for support?
Lucie :Yeah, what you said just resonates a lot. It is. I see a lot of women that are so impressive in so many areas of their lives, like they have amazing careers. Yeah. Had a, an opera singer like how much work, discipline and effort does it take to become an opera singer and to live from that, like that was so impressive. Or, you know, women that just have brilliant careers.
Rebecca:and to be on stage and be seen and feel like, well, if I can do that, then I'm pretty confident in myself. Right. Like
Lucie :Yeah,
Rebecca:amazing.
Lucie :Exactly. Yeah. That level of confidence and just everything I have, you know, women that are high achieving in maybe the corporate world or artists, and when you hear their life at everything they've achieved you, you would meet them in a regular life and you would be like, wow, what an impressive woman. And yet they come to me telling me that that is a topic. Body image is a topic where they still feel like, like they're a child, like they have not grew one millimeter. Further from when they were, you know, 14 or 16, and they still find themselves constantly thinking about their bodies comparing to other women, passing in opportunities, making themselves smaller, worrying a lot of these symptoms. so these are typical clients I have like women that are so impressive and are yet held back by this little aspect of their life.
Rebecca:yeah, I really relate to that. I feel like so many of my clients are there as well, where they're very much even on their healing journeys, like have of done therapy and breathe-work and somatic therapy and all these different things. And one of the big problems that I see in the world, lots of problems in the world, but one of the big things that I see is that there's very little frameworks or spaces for women to heal the relationship with their body or be able to, this is my thing and I'm curious what you think about it, but be able to fully embrace their bodies. Not as a, oh, I'm just accepting it. I'm resigning to like, this is how I look, or it is what it is, but really having a radical acceptance and embracing of their bodies and also feel beautiful at the same time. And I don't know if I've ever seen frameworks for that. And I think that's what really drew me to some of the things that you were talking about, because one of your recent posts was saying like, the different archetypes of women, struggling with their body image and then it went the last one. It's like the healed woman, the woman who is able to choose, what she wants to engage in, how she wants to take care of herself. If she wants to you know, put makeup on or feel a certain way, she's doing it from a place of empowerment. Not because, oh, I'm not enough. I don't love myself, I'm not beautiful, but like this is fun or this is creative. And that really spoke to me because I don't see that very often. So I'm curious what you think about that concept where you can fully embrace your body and also feel beautiful at the same time.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think you're touching into the heart of why it's so difficult also to talk about recovery, because a lot of people are like, what does recovery even look like? What does it look like to heal my body image? And so I like to talk about this as a staircase with different steps. so I think. The healed woman would be the last step of the stair. And I think you have, when you come from a place of body negativity, you have to go the different steps. You can't bypass that. And so I think for me, the first step, so you have body negativity, body neutrality, body acceptance, and then body positivity. And so I think,
Rebecca:That's great. I'm,
Lucie :yeah, I, I think you have to go to a point, you have to start with neutrality. it's really hard for when you are in shame and negativity to go straight to positivity because then saying affirmations to yourself like, oh, I am beautiful, feels like you're lying to yourself. It doesn't stick, it doesn't work. So I think having a message of body neutrality online of not engaging with beauty culture, I think is really useful for some people. And I know it was useful to me for some years. I think I spent really a year, wearing large clothes, not wearing makeup and really not engaging. And that was a really important moment for me in my journey. So I think there's something good there, but at some point it did feel limiting to me and I was like, oh, I miss makeup, I miss feeling, you know, pretty and all that. So it's true. Then I feel like once you stayed in neutrality enough so that you got rid of shame, maybe of all this negative feeling associated with beauty and feeling like I have to do this, I have to perform for other people. Or else I'll be rejected, which is really anchored in fear. Once you let that go, then yeah, I, I really like this idea of ascending to positivity. I can feel beautiful if I want to. I can decide to wear makeup today if I want to, and if I'm tired and I just wanna rock around in my pajama, basically it is okay, and I am still valuable. I still respect myself. I still feel good. I still can stay present in my body and my sensations.
Rebecca:Yeah, I really like that. I really like that. You could use that body neutrality as a tool, but it's not necessarily the end goal. I guess maybe for me, on my journey, I kind of skipped the neutrality part probably because I started my journey as a boudoir photographer and so much of it was helping women feel beautiful. And I saw how magnetic and healing and embodied that was to feel beautiful. But it's very different to feel beautiful versus to look beautiful in the eyes of others. And I think that's where the nuance is, is we actually do get to decide what beautiful means, what sexy means. We get to decide how we feel about ourselves, and that's what's so empowering about breaking free from these constructs and beauty standards and societal pressures.
Lucie :Hmm. That's really interesting. It's a really different approach. I've never tried that actually. yeah, I feel like, also neutrality is nice to have a place you can fall back to if anything happens.'cause also life is, life is by nature and essence unpredictable. So you're gonna have some moments where you're gonna gain weight. It's gonna happen, you know, let's say a couple weeks in a row. If, things are bad at work. Uh, there are big family events and I know maybe you get pregnant, it's gonna happen. You're gonna gain weight, your skin is gonna suck. And that's unpredictable. It's uncontrollable. And in these moments, it's really nice to have this falling back on neutrality. I'm gonna just decide to not engage with anything and still feel safe there.
Rebecca:all of this is so nuanced and obviously so personal.
Lucie :Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:I totally, totally hear what you're saying. Sometimes I feel like the neutrality piece and just, this is literally just a conversation and for everyone who's listening in, Lucie and I have never even spoken to each other before, so I hope this will be one of many conversations, but when I think about neutrality, it almost feels like it was born from beauty standards because beauty standards and diet culture tell us that we're not really allowed to love our bodies and that there's a certain way that we're supposed to look. And so I think. when you're healing, it's very natural to just be like, fuck that all. Like, I don't wanna engage in that. That's not important. It's what's on the inside that matters. but then I think that can also be a dangerous place to stay. I agree with you that I think it really could be like a step in the process. And obviously it was for you and it is for so many women. but it could be a dangerous place to stay because then that becomes like, well, I'm just not beautiful. I'm not beautiful. That's just not who I am. I'm smart. I'm this, I'm that, but I'm not beautiful. And then it's like kind of saying to diet culture and beauty standards like you are right. You know, like you are right. there is only a certain type of look or a certain type of person that deserves to feel that way.
Lucie :Mm. That's so interesting. I've never thought about it this way. I think you're absolutely right. It's like a reaction, you know, it's like if body negativity is being fully in diet culture and then body neutrality would be the opposite. I completely reject everything, but then when you're rejecting something, you're still reacting to it. You're not completely free. That's really true. Really interesting. I've never thought about it this way. Yeah.
Rebecca:but also got that from your content. Like maybe you didn't think about it exactly that way, but I think, I think
Lucie :Mm,
Rebecca:something. I think we're on the same wavelength.
Lucie :for sure. Yeah.
Rebecca:yeah, totally. And, my program, it's called The New Sexy and I think people are really triggered by that word, sexy. Like what is she talking about? Why is that even important? but the idea is to redefine it for yourself. Like people always say, oh, skinny is the new sexy. Strong is the new sexy. This, there's always a new trend. That's the new sexy. And my idea is you are the new sexy and like you get to define it. So one of the things that I do is I bring my clients through like this visualization of what does it feel like in your body? And I think you mentioned that you work with sensations in the bodies and somatics, to feel sexy. And when people describe it, I mean, it's different for every woman, but it's so exciting. It's like, I feel safe, I feel liberated, I feel like anything is possible, you know? And it's like, woah sexy actually doesn't have much to do with like what you're wearing or what you look like, or the size of your pants. it's really how you feel in your body. And it's just so empowering and so empowering to me.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. I like that idea a lot. Yeah. I think it's just a different word I would use. Maybe confidence, but Yeah. Sexy also. It's even a stronger word. I like that. Yeah.
Rebecca:Stronger and more triggering for sure.
Lucie :For some people. Yeah.
Rebecca:yeah. Definitely. have you connected with a lot of people in the body image space?'cause like I told you I haven't, Do you have a community of people that you feel like are on the same wavelength as you, or that you can talk to about these things as a professional?
Lucie :Actually, not really. I mean, I have some of my colleagues, like therapists, from where I live and I have some people I studied with, but I don't have anyone specifically in this space. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:Why do you think that is?
Lucie :Um, I don't know actually. I don't know. I just, I feel like, when I started in this space, also, when I started publishing content on social media, I wanted to fill maybe a hole that I felt when I was healing from body image issues and eating disorder. I remember being maybe 10 years back, being thirsty for that kind of content and, never finding anything that really resonated with me. I feel like all the solutions I found, I had to really dig deep into real life. Like my therapist, maybe the people, I met some books, but I couldn't find online anything that really spoke to my problem. and so I see a lot of people in this space.
Rebecca:getting really emotional because it just.
Lucie :Okay.
Rebecca:I just, that's exactly how I felt as well. Wow. I can't believe I'm getting emotional right now, but like, it was exactly that. It wasn't that there wasn't spaces for healing. I had my therapist and like all these healing modalities I was using and my coaches and this and that, definitely in that space of healing. But like there was no one that was really speaking to that specific problem.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's a bit, uh, paradox because I think a lot of people are talking about this topic. so I mean, I, see a lot of accounts right now on Instagram, but I see a lot of people talking about it, but maybe not in a way that resonates, resonated back then, and resonates today with me still. I think it's a very hard topic to talk about in the right way.
Rebecca:Right. And then also, even if you're talking about it, what we're doing is actually providing a framework for people to do something about it. It's not just, here's a quote or a body positive picture. Be inspired and that's it. Like you said, you can't just repeat affirmations and think that gonna change the way that you see yourself. I think that's what's missing is the framework. And I've spoken to a lot of my clients who have been in the healing spaces for a long time, people who have had eating disorders, but not even just that.'cause there's eating disorders, but then there's also just disordered eating and I think most women experience that. Would you agree?
Lucie :I, I would say I've never met a woman, in my practice or in life, that I've never met a woman that doesn't have thoughts about dieting or food or her weight.
Rebecca:Right. I guess that in itself is just disordered mindset, right?
Lucie :Yeah, exactly. I've, it's always been a topic. It always comes back. Any woman I've worked with, even when it wasn't specifically when she wasn't coming for eating disorder, it always came up. So that's a big clue. Yeah.
Rebecca:Yeah, for sure.
Lucie :Yeah. So
Rebecca:I'd be like, did you ever talk about this with your therapist? Or, you know, what about an eating disorder recovery? Actually, I'm curious about that for you. Did you go to eating disorder recovery? Because a lot of what my clients would tell me is that it was very much about like keeping them alive. Thank God. I'm really glad it kept them alive and gave them
Lucie :Hmm.
Rebecca:tools, but then. It kind of left them feeling like, okay, I'm fine and I'm not gonna die and I'm not gonna get in a really dangerous place anymore. But I am always gonna have this mindset, because I think that there's something missing there in terms of really actually breaking free from diet culture and beauty standards.
Lucie :Hmm. That's very interesting. Yeah. Uh, no, I haven't been. I saw therapists, I saw different therapists, different approaches, and I met one therapist who changed my life and really gave me a lot of tools.
Rebecca:Wow,
Lucie :Um. Hmm. Yeah.
Rebecca:that's so
Lucie :We love our, therapists. They're the best. We love them.
Rebecca:They probably know how much we love them.
Lucie :Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How was recovery for you? Did you have an eating disorder?
Rebecca:So, no, I was never diagnosed with a eating disorder.
Lucie :Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:I was bullied for my appearance and for my weight growing up, I was just a very healthy child, but maybe a bit chubbier than other kids. And I was very much teased for that and felt very much separate, alone. Like I didn't belong. And so when I got to middle school, it was like, I'm gonna prove everyone wrong and I'm gonna lose all of this weight. And I went on a diet, I was probably 12, 13 years old, very unsupervised. Like just even talking about it now, I remember googling like, how many calories can I eat in a day? And it was like 1200 to lose weight. And then I would try to do like 800 and I would try to go as low as possible and I was looking up how to not eat and how to. Basically be anorexic. Like it, it definitely was an eating disorder. It definitely was an eating disorder that was undiagnosed, unsupervised, and I think at some point I just kind of stopped going to that extreme, but my mindset was still there. do you have people that have had experiences like that? Do you have clients like that?
Lucie :Yeah, it's actually very common. Uh, it's a very common theme I see of women that had a moment where, they were in an eating disorder or they, like the body image topic was very intense for them, and then they heal themselves through, maybe they see a therapist that they heal on another issue or they, they move or they move out of their parents. Something changes, and then it's like they have it under control from the outside. There's no.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Lucie :Really big symptoms that would indicate a strong eating disorder, but still exactly, the mindset is still alive. The, when you say the mindset, I would say the trauma, the, the trauma in the body is still there. There's shame. The fear lives there. Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:Yeah, a hundred percent. so, no, I wasn't diagnosed. I never went to recovery. I never even went to a therapist specifically for my body image or for disordered eating. I think it was really my work that was what inspired me to go down this road very similar to your experience where it wasn't that all of a sudden, oh, I just wanted to start helping other people first. I was like, okay, if I'm giving all of these women so much encouragement and love and compassion and think they're beautiful, and tell them, no, you don't have to lose weight. You're perfect the way you are. And then I'd look in the mirror and be like tearing myself apart and really seeing myself as a project to constantly work on. I think that's what it really was, because women will often say, and I'm sure you hear this too, like, oh, I don't hate my body. I don't hate it. I think I'm pretty and I'm fine. I just wish that.dot, do I wish this would change? I wish I could lose weight a little bit. I don't like my nose. I don't, you know, But I'm okay. And I think that's kind of where I was at that point where definitely felt beautiful some days, liked things about my body went out, felt confident, loved makeup and fashion and all of those things. So from the outside, it wasn't that I hated my body, quote unquote. I mean, looking back, I definitely think it was a form of body hatred and abuse, self-abuse. what I always felt was that first of all, this is normal. This is how women think about themselves. And I'm always bettering myself. And if I'm always bettering myself, then I could always be bettering my body. it's like this project And then at some point when I was seeing how my clients were feeling about themselves, no matter what their body looked like, if they fit into the beauty standard or if they didn't, they were feeling the same way. And then I was like, wait, this is never ever gonna be enough. And I just recently posted a story about my grandmother. I was talking to her in her eighties and she was actually very often known for her physical beauty. And she was living in assisted living at the time, and she started complaining about her weight and how she needs to lose weight and she's so fat and this and that. And that was one of those wake up calls for me. I think there was a few of them. That was one of them when I was just like, I'm here in my early twenties and she's there. In her eighties and she's thinking the same thing about herself. And I don't wanna be feeling that way anymore. I don't wanna see my body as this never ending project that I don't
Lucie :Hmm.
Rebecca:why, like why are we spending so much time, so much focus on this?
Lucie :Hmm. Wow. That's such a powerful story. Thanks for sharing that. Thanks. I actually also went through something similar with my own grandmother in her own assisted living. And yeah, I I've,
Rebecca:No
Lucie :I've seen this. Yeah. Yeah. It was in May actually, and it was really powerful to me. So I completely understand. And I think this idea, I really like the way you describe it. seeing my body as a project. That's an idea that I also hear a lot and that I also had when I, I was struggling with that and I think when I hear that, I hear this idea that one day I will finally be beautiful. It's like a myth that, that lives in the mind of a lot of women that
Rebecca:And one day. Yeah, exactly.
Lucie :And whenever I hear that I really hear trauma. It's really the trauma speaking. It's really, you know, the words of a little girl that went through rejection, shame, fear, that's probably, you know, rejection in, in school or at home. Feeling like feelings that a child is not supposed to feel. Feeling like something is so wrong with me, that I am rejected by the people around me, that I am alone and I feel this insane amount of shame. And so to not go insane, I think a child creates this mechanism that is actually really smart and that keeps him. From going crazy, which is one day I will be beautiful. One day this will change. One day I will finally experience everything that I want to experience, which is belonging, love, safety, feeling important, and that gets, I think, encrypted in the body. It's really on a cellular level. This belief keeps us as children alive. And then the problem is like it, it stays forever. It's like a ghost of a past memory. Even when you're 40, 50, one day, I will, be beautiful. We still want to experience that relief and so that's how I work with my clients as trauma. How do I let go of that idea? Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:Um, yeah, and I think it's a very normal to go straight to body image, weight, food as a coping mechanism for that trauma because it, it seems like something that we can somewhat control and it's also so celebrated by society.
Lucie :Mm-hmm.
Rebecca:So it's
Lucie :for sure.
Rebecca:I do this, it's not just in my mind, I'm gonna feel more accepted.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. For sure. And I think, I don't know how it is now but it. I remember when I was in school also, girls were a lot more shamed on their bodies than men or boys were, you know, like boys were also bullied. if boys had something in their bodies that was very different, then they would get, teased on that. But for girls it was more, it was just systematic. It was really like girls were ranked. There was, you know, boys would make rankings of girls, uh, you know, would make comments about a girl's appearance. We would discuss celebrities. Who's the most beautiful girl in the room? what celebrity woman is hot? Like it was just. Everywhere. So of course that's the topic that you choose. Also, like when you're a little girl, you're like, okay, this is, this is it. This is what I need to achieve in this life to be important, to be celebrated, to be safe.
Rebecca:Yeah. I mean, and I don't know if this is a hundred percent true. But my thought when you said that is that for men, that's part of what could make them worthy or accepted. But for girls, it's like the main thing. It's this equals your worth.
Lucie :Yeah, for sure. I think it's really changing in the last five, 10 years. So now we're going into a different direction. But when we were in school like 10, maybe 20 years back, that was really true. There were a lot of different ways in which a boy or a man could be successful that did not involve being pretty, having a muscular body. You know, you could be
Rebecca:could be great and if someone was, then they would be like praised and honored for it. But it wasn't The only thing
Lucie :Exactly, you know, like they would have so many role models they could look up to of successful men that lived a successful life that had nothing to do with appearance. You could be a scientist, you know, won a Nobel Prize. You can be a journalist, you can be, even a, I don't know, artists. A million different stuff as CEO. There was a million different things, but for a girl it was always gonna be about, but is she pretty? You know, okay, maybe she's a CEO, but oh, she's ugly, or she's a politician and we are gonna comment on her, the what she's wearing. It was always about appearance. But I do think it's important to say that it's shifting, honestly. It's really shifting Now. More and more men are sexualized in movies. You know, you will see beauty standards for men of muscles they're supposed to have. It's Instagram is changing that landscape. It's changing the way it is for boys and men right now. And I think I'm, I'm not yet seeing the consequences.
Rebecca:but you're not saying, not necessarily in a positive way.
Lucie :No, not in a positive way. It. It's becoming worse for men. I don't know if it's becoming better for women, but it's becoming worse for men and for boys in a way that I, I don't measure the consequences right now.'cause I'm not so in that world, but I think we're gonna see those consequences in the next years.
Rebecca:Yeah. my husband and I work together and so we have body image conversations all the time and yeah, he's telling me a lot of things that are popping up, not only in the media and just popular culture, but just in day-to-day life. Like his barber is now offering like hair lasering for men, which is something that he never experienced before it's like, okay, okay, now here's the next thing, the next thing. it was interesting when you said things are shifting because I feel like when I have conversations with people who are not body image therapists and coaches, they always say, well, at least it's getting better, like with body positivity. And my first gut reaction is it's getting worse. And I'm curious what you think.
Lucie :ooh. I think it's a complex question to answer. I think if you look, uh, 10 years back, I think it has gotten better. I think the fact that we're having this conversation right now, that there's all these resources on social media, like it's gotten so much better for women. There's a whole universe where you can talk about that with other women. You have resources. I think it's gotten better. In some way, and that I hear a lot on social media that skinny is coming back. I hear a lot that it's getting worse in fashion in some industries, but I'm, I have to say, I am not feeling the consequences of that in my everyday life. And maybe it's also because I built a life where I'm protected from that I'm not feeling those consequences and I'm not hearing from my clients things that would indicate that it, it's worse right now. So I don't know. The answer is from what I'm seeing on social media, people are saying it's getting worse, but I'm not experiencing that so much. So I would be curious to know what you think about that.
Rebecca:Yeah. I think you've probably hit the nail on the head that you've created a life that. Supports your values and the way that you want to see yourself and what you wanna pass on to other people. Because I also felt like that for a long time. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, everything's body positivity now. Which also that can maybe be another conversation. I don't know, if I love that term or not, but another time. but yeah, I was really feeling like I was curating my feed and, you know, creating really incredible boundaries in my life where, even still, no one really comments on my body anymore. It was like, there's just this energetic, spiritual, emotional, I guess, reality that I really worked hard to create for myself. And in the last couple years, I feel like with the Ozempic and. Just certain trends that are coming back. The accessibility to Botox and plastic surgery, what I'm feeling. And not only online, but also in person seeing, you know, friends and community members and things like that, clients that it's almost like, well, why not? Why wouldn't you do that? If you have the option to go on Ozempic, if you have the option to, have injections and Botox, like, why wouldn't you do it? And it's just another thing that has become so normalized and so much the standard that the people who are not doing it really feel like they're going deeply against the grain. so there's that. And then there's filters and social media. I recently downloaded, Facetune. as a photographer I also just like wanted to check it out and oh my gosh, like, you know, we always have talked for years about how Photoshop can do this and Photoshop can do that, but that's only if you're skilled in Photoshop. But now you can go on an app and make yourself look so much thinner, change the space between your eyes, all the makeup on your face, your hair color, your jawline, and it actually looks pretty realistic and you don't even need to have these, skills to use Photoshop. So I just feel like there's so many different places where these things are coming up and there's so much accessibility to it. And then also I find a lot of times because body positivity and self-love is something that is like such a trend as well. I think a lot of marketing is. Using self-love and body positivity to disguise disordered eating, to disguise diet culture and beauty standards and all of those things. It's like, oh, I'm gonna have a self-love day. I'm gonna go get my Botox. Or like love yourself thin. Like that type of thing. So I feel like even though we do have these conversations and that is amazing, like I'm not gonna take away from that. I agree with you that we didn't even have this idea or any frameworks to be able to think differently about our bodies. And now there are so many, so that's incredible. But I feel like at the same time, there's this other part of it that's just getting worse and worse, and also using the self-love to disguise it. That's my rant.
Lucie :Yeah. Yeah. That's, that was I, amen. You know, I can, I, I don't, I don't see that in my everyday life, but I hear a lot about it on social media and that's, that's all horrible. That's all I can say to it. Yeah. Hmm.
Rebecca:Yeah, it's horrible and I'm so glad that you don't see it in your everyday life, and I think that's a testament to what people can create for themselves.
Lucie :Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've, moved to Berlin, uh, a couple years ago, six, seven years ago. And I think that was a big part of also being able to heal the way I have that Berlin is a very special place on earth, where people are very free. There are a lot of anti-capitalist movements, I would say. So they reject consumption and there are still some community here of people that. Will adhere to everything you just described, but it is really possible to find people that are really aware of all that and that reject it. So yeah, I guess living in Berlin helped a lot.
Rebecca:Yeah, that makes sense. Is there anything that you're working on in your business that is exciting or anything that you feel like just particularly passionate about that we haven't covered today?
Lucie :well, I'm launching, uh, my program right now to help women heal their body image. I'm calling it the Body Image Reset. And it's a group program to help women. Heal from everything we just described right now. Heal their body image, uh, get, you know, free from comparison. Just really accept and feel at home in their body that they have right now. And I am really excited about launching that. Yeah, I,
Rebecca:amazing. Is it something that you've done before or is it new?
Lucie :I've worked one-on-one before. I mean, that's what I do most of the time. but now I really wanna take it to the idea of having a group and having it in a six months container. I really created this program, hearing over and over stories from different women. I decided to take all the topics that keep coming back, that I keep hearing and put it in this program. And
Rebecca:Um,
Lucie :I think it's gonna be very exciting. I'm looking forward. Hmm.
Rebecca:I have a feeling it's gonna be so amazing and I'm so excited for you to like have that group experience.'cause I also, I started out doing one-on-one and then I actually very rarely do one-on-one anymore because I think there's probably maybe one of the reasons why you started the group program, but just the level of healing that you can do with other women specifically in the body image space is outstanding because of everything we spoke about today. The comparison, the competition, the fact that our own journeys kind of started when we were in connection with other women and realizing what they were going through and then just being able to like really let go of all that shame. I think that's really the first step is just like. Duh. of course we all struggle with this. let's stop saying that we don't struggle with our body image. this is the society that we live in. This is the messages and the stories that we've been given. And saying that doesn't mean we're a victim, doesn't mean we have to stay in the past, doesn't mean anything wrong about us. It just means the awareness of it is actually what's gonna empower us to think differently about ourselves and have a better relationship with ourselves. Freaking enjoy food, enjoy life, and pass it on to future generations. God willing.
Lucie :I love that. I love that. So do you have a group program right now?
Rebecca:Yeah, I do. Yeah. I have, a mastermind. I call them mastermind, because. Just bringing women together with all these different stories and ideas, being able to support each other as well, in addition to like me group coaching and really guiding them through this experience. It's called The New Sexy, and I've had it for I guess two and a half years now. This is my seventh round of doing it, and it's everything. Like, it's just so, so, so special and every single round it just is more clear more refined, the women that are coming in are really just like ready to do the work and it is just very inspiring.
Lucie :That's amazing. Oh, that's. Sounds amazing. Um, yeah, I'm really looking forward to also experiencing that myself,
Rebecca:Yeah, for sure. I don't know. I feel like we gotta, we have to continue these conversations. Maybe we'll do something together I'm so, so happy that we met.
Lucie :I would love that. I also feel really inspired by everything we talked about. That was really nice. I would love that for sure.
Rebecca:yeah. Yay. If there was one message that, I mean, I think we're both pretty passionate and we wish that we could give like a hundred messages to women, but if you could say one thing to a woman who is listening to this episode and probably in the place where, you know, she's done so many different things and this feels like one sticky part of her healing journey, where she's still clashing with her inner critic and wants to let that go. What message would you wanna give her?
Lucie :I guess I would say what we were saying at the beginning of this podcast that she doesn't have to live this way. She doesn't have to continue to hate her body. It is completely possible to get rid of that and to live a full life of feeling happy and safe and really living in your body fully, like using your body as a vessel to fully live this experience on earth that we get to experience through this shell of flesh that is our body and it is possible to really love ourselves and, you know, she doesn't have to stay that way. Healing is possible. That would be my message.
Rebecca:Healing is possible. Yes. Wow. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and sharing your heart. And I know that women are gonna get so much out of this. I'm excited to share it.
Lucie :Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.
Rebecca:Of course. Have a good day. Bye everyone.