The Body Image Revolution
The Body Image Revolution
Hustle Culture & Diet Culture Taught Us to Never Trust Ourselves With Ahuva Hershkop
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In this episode, I sit down with Ahuva Hershkop, a registered dietitian and coach for high-achieving women. Ahuva shares how escaping diet culture led her straight into hustle culture — and how both fueled burnout, perfectionism, and self-doubt.
Now, she helps overstretched women rebuild self-trust, so they can pursue success without sacrificing themselves.
We unpack why so many women trade body goals for business goals, the truth about intuitive eating and self-trust, and how to finally stop chasing “enough” — in your body, your career, and your life.
If you’re tired of second-guessing yourself, this conversation is for you.
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Hey, gorgeous. Welcome back to the Body Image Revolution. Passover is over now. We're in our first week back from Passover vacation and here in the Sigala household we're easing out of vacation mode and getting back into our routines, which is something that I normally love. I thrive on that flexible structure. And because I love what I do, I love working and that balance between home and work and carving time out for myself, it's just amazing. It helps me feel more grounded and alive and more connected to who I am and what I do. But I haven't really been feeling like that for this past week because. I don't know about you, but I got a little too ambitious this week. After being home with our kids for two straight weeks. I just jumped straight back into work and I think I overloaded my schedule a bit and just found myself going, going, going, and not slowing down and listening to myself and my body like I normally do. Which is honestly kind of funny because today's episode, which was not planned this way, is all about hustle culture and diet culture and how they both disconnect us from our self trust. Because the thing is guys, nobody is immune to this. Even when we logically know better, we're still living in this world that constantly tells us to do more, to be more, to earn more, to shrink more. And no matter who you are, it just takes a lot of self-awareness and intention again and again to come back home to ourselves. And then just notice which voices are our external ones and ones that have been deeply ingrained in us and what our true inner voice is saying. And then when we do notice that we can go back to that and rebuild that deep trust in the wisdom that's already inside of us. And that's exactly why I created The Visibility Code, which is a three day masterclass for female entrepreneurs. And this is something that I've never done before, but I've always seen such a deep interconnection between business and body image, and I'm so excited about this. I wanna mention this right now because enrollment is closing in just two days, so go to the link in the show notes if this is something that you're interested in. It is for women who are already showing up, but still feel like they're holding themselves back from that next level in themselves and in their business. Maybe you're posting content and maybe you've done the mindset work, but something still feels a little bit stuck. Perhaps you're second guessing how you sound or how you look, or how your message is landing. So if you know that you're meant for more and you're meant to be more visible, more you, without performing and without burning out, but bringing in everything that's meant for you, then this is for you. Like I mentioned, go to the show notes right now and join us before the doors close. All right, so let's talk about today's episode. I sat down with a Ahuva Hershkop, who is a registered dietician and executive coach for high achieving women. She shares her story with us, which is so interesting about how she broke up from diet culture, but it actually ended up leading her straight to hustle culture and how both of those cultures are so interconnected and they fueled burnout and perfectionism and disconnection from herself. And now what she does is she helps women rebuild their self-trust and create success on their own terms. So we dive into all of that, how perfectionism hides behind our ambition, how women trade body goals for business goals, and why trusting yourself in your body and in your business can change everything. Let's get into it. Hello everyone. Today we have Ahuva Hershkop here on my podcast. we have been Facebook friends for maybe about a year or so now, or maybe even longer, and I just love her content. I love, everything that she has to say and we decided to have a coffee date. And from there the rest is history. And there's just so much that we've talked about online and on our Zoom call that I wanna share with you guys. I'm really excited to have you here. So thank you so much Ahuva. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do?
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. So I am an executive coach for overstretched, women. Women who are really struggling to navigate all of the priorities that they have in life. Most of them have had experience with burnout sometime within the last one to three years. And now are sort of asking the question, what now, right. If I still want my goals, if I still wanna achieve them, but I don't wanna burn out again and I don't wanna compromise, what do I do? And I really work with women to be able to answer that question, to be able to put systems in place to rewire their nervous systems so they can accomplish their goals without having to compromise or take other things off their plate.
Rebecca Sigala:That's amazing. And how does hustle culture play into your work? Because I know that's something that you talk about a lot online and I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.
Ahuva Hershkop:So I think that I have some pretty interesting views on hustle culture and I think they really reflect sort of how I think about diet culture and how I think about those kind of topics in general. So obviously being my training, I'm a registered dietician, that was how I started out, was really in intuitive eating dietetics, specifically in the pediatric space. So raising intuitive eaters. And I kind of think diet culture and hustle culture, take similar trajectories or really impact mm-hmm. Women specifically in the same way. Right? It's still hustle culture and diet culture are both, you know, when you achieve this random goal that we've set based on nothing, right. Whether it's a size 2 or whether it's becoming the CEO of a company, then yeah, you can be happy, then you can actually feel fulfilled, then you'll have some sort of a worth. And so it impacts women in much the same way. Absolutely. And a lot of the reason that I actually shifted what I was doing was seeing how many women broke up with diet culture or broke up with the number on the scale, but in actual fact had just transferred the number to something else.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah,
Ahuva Hershkop:it wasn't necessarily that they had broken up the, my Worth is determined by some sort of external value, right? It was just no longer the number on the scale. It was now, if you were a business owner, your monthly revenue, it was, you know, the title of your job. It was how many followers you had on Instagram. It was how many friends you had, how many parties you got invited to whatever all of those metrics were. And so to me, I think it's really important to be able to, on all areas, really just separate decision making from hustle culture or diet culture. So hustle is not bad. Thinking about nutrition is not bad. It's really why are you doing it and what's the motivation as to determine, you know, whether it's hustle culture, or just something you're even working really hard on.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, that is so true. I find that happening for myself even, you know, that's something that over the years I have really worked on is to let go of diet culture and it's come very naturally with my work. And then in the past, I don't know, five years or so, it was something that I really intentionally started to let go of. But that didn't mean that there wasn't all this other stuff that kept coming up. And I think one of the main things that I see as a, overlap between hustle culture and diet culture is this sense of perfectionism. Do you agree with that?
Ahuva Hershkop:A hundred percent. Yeah. And so perfectionism a hundred percent is like, if I can just achieve this thing, then you know, everything will be great. Right? And one of the things that I think is so interesting, I think that I posted this earlier on in the week, is so many of the things that we do in our lives are like laundry, right? Like no matter what, I can get on top of the laundry, I have three kids who are seven and under, they come home, they take off their clothes. There's always laundry in the hamper, right? No matter what always. There is always laundry in the hamper. And so often we try and think of things like, okay, it's just I, get this next promotion, or I get this next client as a business owner, and then it's sort of like I set it and forget it. Then I can be happy forever. Right? Or I lose 10 pounds and then I can be happy forever. But we forget that that's not how bodies work. That's not how businesses work. That's not how humans work. Yeah. And our perfectionism keeps us stuck in that loop unless we interrupt it.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. There's always something ahead of us that we think is gonna be the solution to our dissatisfaction with our body or ourselves. And once we get to that point, if we're not working on our mindset and the way that, we just see ourselves in the present moment, nothing ever changes. It just keeps going and going. Yeah, absolutely. Wow, that's amazing. Okay, so what's your story behind this? Why are you so passionate about this? Did you go through something yourself?
Ahuva Hershkop:So I started buying a nutrition practice at the end of 2019, right? Did all of the, I'm gonna become an entrepreneur for time, freedom for my family. All of those kind of, you know, the same reasons that a lot of us get into entrepreneurship. I had, twins who were about to turn three and I was thinking that I would probably try and get pregnant with a third child. Starting sometime in the beginning of 2020, it would probably take me a year the same way that it did with my twins. And, you know, lo and behold, I found myself very quickly pregnant, finding out two days after Covid, lockdowns,
Rebecca Sigala:oh my God.
Ahuva Hershkop:My 3-year-old twins got sent home and I took a pregnancy test and was like, okay. Great. Um, COVID baby. Guess we're doing this. And similar to sort of your story, I had done work to really separate my worth from the numbers on the scale, but I started my business with like, okay, I'm going to replace my clinical salary within one year. And I was so dogmatic in like, Nope, this is happening because I put all of my worth onto this that I can't look, you know, any other way. This has to happen. And so, obviously, you know, being the perfectionist that I was, I did that, burnt myself out in the process. Went back to work six days after I had my son with him. No way. Six days. Are you crazy? In my sessions, he came to every client session with me because I didn't wanna lose momentum in my business. Oh my God. Because I was like, what does that mean about me as a person? And at the same time was hearing the same thing from every client that I was talking to. Right. I was talking predominantly to women, to moms who were coming to me for picky eating advice or how to build intuitive eaters. And it was some of the first times that they were ever questioning how this shows up for them. Right? How the perfectionism, how diet culture, how hustle culture, how all of those things were actually impacting them in their lives. When they asked it for their children,
Rebecca Sigala:they probably didn't even know what they were getting into. Nothing. They just wanted advice about their picky eater, and all of a sudden they're talking about their self-worth,
Ahuva Hershkop:which is always how it ends up happening. And really, as I had to ask myself the questions, right? Find myself on the other side of burnout and then say, okay, but I still want all of these things. I was kind of hearing a similar sentiment from a lot of my clients. And so as I walked myself through it, at a certain point I ended up walking a lot of the clients who had come to me for something completely different through that same thing. Wow. And then it sort of evolved from there.
Rebecca Sigala:Wow. Yeah. I very much relate to that. That's amazing that you were helping people with Exactly, what you needed at the time. Was it easy for you to identify that in your clients even though it was something that you were unconsciously struggling with? Or was it conscious? Did you know that you were struggling with that at the time?
Ahuva Hershkop:It's interesting'cause I've done a lot of the, you know, the self-reflection work and I think it always takes that same sort of trajectory where you're like, okay, I don't even realize that I'm doing this. Right. It's the way that we acquire skills.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah.
Ahuva Hershkop:Right. There's always, if we think about like there's something called, unconscious incompetence. Right? Like, you're so bad. Right. You don't even know that you're so bad at it to conscious incompetence like, you are bad at this and you now know. And I think that was where I found myself in that year was I was able to actually recognize and put a name to the things that I was struggling with.
Hmm. And
Ahuva Hershkop:so at that point, I wasn't necessarily. able to coach myself through it. Obviously those are the skills that I learned and then now teach. But it was sort of being able to even see it, like have this eagle eye view. And the more that I saw it in myself, the more apparent it just became in everyone that I'm talking to where it was like, people would come to me and say, I just want my kid to eat because they have to grow. And I was like, okay, spit it out. what's the real reason? Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's it. And I'm like, okay. But if there was a truer version of that, it would be uhhuh. And one was like, because I'm such a failure that I just want my child to eat so I can feel good about myself. And it's like there, it's,
Rebecca Sigala:oh my God, why is it that we Jewish mothers specifically? I mean, I'm sure a lot of other mothers as well, but there's that Jewish mother syndrome where you just like enjoy watching your kid eat and it does fill this sense like inside of you. What is that? Have you thought about that before?
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah, I think that it's number one, I mean, obviously it's a, a basic, biological, biological thing. But I do also think that so often we're not conscious of the ways that our kids sometimes shine a light on what we're most embarrassed about. Right. If you think that you were like, I have a child who God bless him, but We'll, you know, he's the kid who we had like a school party last week and he's doing silly things on stage and I'm like, oh, dear God, I'm, I don't know whose child that is that his mother should really, but we all have those kids who do things that we're like, this is questionable. Mm-hmm. And so often if we don't check our own, self-worth, if we don't have a strong sense of self. All of those things are such triggers for people, right? Yeah. It's in the
Rebecca Sigala:same way as, and then also usually whatever it is that you're embarrassed about with your kid or it bothers you. Yeah. Is pointed directly to that underlayer of like how you feel about yourself. And it can be very specific.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yes, a hundred percent. And so for a lot of people, when you're sitting in so much self-doubt about who you are as a person or as a mother, or you feel guilty because you've gone to work all day and you're like, I should have been home for dinner, or I didn't spend enough time with my child. Now they're also not ate. That really was one of the places that it often came out for my clients was like, if I can't even do this, what does this mean about me? Or it must be'cause I've gone to work that now I'm screwing up my child. They won't eat what I'm making.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Or like, yeah. It's somehow my fault. Yeah. Yes. Wow. Wow. So Jewish mothers, Jewish guilt. It's just all so interconnected. Wow. Yeah. So leading up to this conversation, we were talking a little bit about listening to our bodies and how that plays into intuitive eating and why people struggle listening to their bodies. so I'd love to just Open the conversation about that. it seems like it's something that is also on top of your mind right now.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. Because I think that it's so, interesting, especially when you're in coaching spaces, right? So many people will say things like, listen to your intuition, or listen to what your body is telling you. Yeah. Or obviously intuitive eating, right. Listen to your needs. And that can be really confusing for a lot of people especially who haven't learned how to regulate their nervous systems enough to, number one, understand what their bodies are telling them. Yeah. Or number two, to be able to even talk back to their bodies. Right? Hmm. Like, I'm someone who tends towards anxiety. Let's talk about Jewish guilt. I'm like a Jew in a nutshell. I'm like
Rebecca Sigala:a Jew in, in a
Ahuva Hershkop:nutshell. Somebody, somebody made a joke, they're like, you know, you're Jewish. if you have like, stomach issues and anxiety, like that's, you know, Ashkenazi Jew. Like,
Rebecca Sigala:but Right. But that reminds me also of these reels. I don't know if you've seen them, but they drive me crazy. these men who are, like, if your woman is a little bit anxious and has stomach issues, you know that she's the best woman for you. Have you? The happiest men have women with stomach issues and a little bit of anxiety and I dunno, it's just so weird.
Ahuva Hershkop:That is really funny. and really interesting that that would be the, the thingy, but Right. Like learning how to even differentiate between, and obviously, you know, that's like, some people how that is like a clinical diagnosis, but even when you get nerves, right. When you feel like, oh no, I shouldn't do that. Right. Yeah. It's very easy to say, listen to your body and take the first base layer feeling that you have. It's true even when it's in intuitive eating, right? Wow. When you might have just like the first like reaction that you have Yeah. To whatever it is, right? I am craving something, right? I'm craving a certain food. Fantastic. Basic layer of intuitive eating might say, okay, so go eat that food. But also there are deeper layers where it's time to start asking yourself, okay, do you have other coping mechanisms? Is there a possibility you're doing this for reasons that are, you know, not hunger and not that hunger is the only reason that we eat, or that you're allowed to eat, but in a way that is not necessarily a helpful coping mechanism based on what you
need
Ahuva Hershkop:to be doing, right? What is the actual underlying need of this? All of those are questions that when we just use the term. listen to your body. Right. Listen to what your body is telling you. Right. You haven't really done the work necessarily to actually understand those messages. Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:I mean, I guess for me, I intuitively started doing that. That's really funny. Um, just because, when I think about listening to my body, I think about, okay, well how do I feel after I eat something? Or how do I feel the next day after I ate a certain way? and so I started factoring that into, the decisions of what I was about to eat. So it wasn't just like, Ooh, I want this. I'm gonna eat it right away. It was taking an extra second to be like, okay, how am I gonna feel afterwards? And if I'm not gonna feel great afterwards, is there something else that I can eat or something else that I can do that would be better for my body? and for the way that it feels and the way that I feel in it. So I feel like, is that one of the layers that you're talking about?
Ahuva Hershkop:Exactly right. Like I always do the same thing. I used to always love, like, I love ice cream. Love ice cream. Mm. But also like every other Jew like you
Rebecca Sigala:used to love ice cream.
Ahuva Hershkop:Well, I'm lactose intolerant kind of. Oh. So not really, but it hurts my stomach sometimes. Right. Oh. Or if I feel sluggish afterwards. I'm also somebody who loves, exercising, being able to move my body as a way to like my brain, have my body feeling good. And so, yeah. It feels so good. I totally agree that, you know, it's really easy to be able to say, I want ice cream. I'm going to eat ice cream, but if the next day it's gonna impact something, like, it's gonna have me feeling slow or sluggish or I'm not gonna be able to move as well as I want to. That's something for me to take into consideration. Right. Right. And so, because that, that really is very body centered as well. A hundred percent. And so being able to start doing the work, as you're saying, to number one, take some other things into consideration. Right. How am I gonna feel about this? and sometimes I still eat the ice cream and then just deal with it the next day. Right. And both of those are fine decisions to make, right. But it's really being able to start understanding where those cues are coming from, right?. whether it's something like I'm listening to my intuition to make a business decision and my body is telling me not to do a public speaking gig, but in actual fact, I'm just nervous, right? Yeah. Like, my body is firing'cause I'm nervous'cause I've never done.
Rebecca Sigala:What's the difference between intuition and your anxiety or your fear?
Ahuva Hershkop:Exactly. And so when do we need to learn how to talk back to it? When do we need to, you know, understand where it's coming from and then walk ourselves through it? or even understand where it's coming from like with the food example you were giving and then still make a different choice.'cause ultimately that's not really gonna serve us
Rebecca Sigala:right. Ya, I think that is a huge myth of intuitive eating. Whenever I talk about it, people are like, oh, so you just eat whatever you want all day. you're promoting Yeah. Unhealthiness or an unhealthy lifestyle. And I'm like, no, that's not exactly it. Yeah. There's lots of layers to it. I mean, I don't know if I would even, I guess I am an intuitive eater, but it's not something that I ascribe to like, you know what I mean? Yeah, a hundred percent.'cause I then I also just feel like, oh, it's just another rule Yeah. About food and another thing to, bow down to, you know?
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah, totally. and I mean that goes back to like, it's so easy to put labels on and then you're like, oh shoot, do I have to live up to this label all time? Yeah, exactly. And the answer is, most of us don't. Right. Unless you're in like that single Instagram reel that somebody posts that one time where they're like, I didn't finish my ice cream'cause I'm eating intuitively. You're like, do you do that all the time though? Because sometimes that doesn't really
Rebecca Sigala:Right, right. It does really surprise me though when I do that. Oh my God. The other day I was eating Reese's and I left half of a Reese's, like I had the package of two and I left half of one and I was like, this is so weird. and I've been doing this for so long, but sometimes it just shocks me. I'm like, I really don't want that.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yes, a hundred percent. And it's funny'cause some of these things we also don't recognize, I was talking about this with a friend last week also. Sometimes even the pressure that trying to eat intuitively can put on to busy, especially professional women, right? Yeah. Where sometimes pressure, it's almost
Rebecca Sigala:easier to just go on a diet, by the way.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yes. the question of like, what do I wanna eat for lunch today? What am I in the mood Of what is my body telling me? I don't wanna ask that question. Yeah. In the middle of a Tuesday. I don't want to ask that question. I wanna Yeah. You know, have something I've prepared in my fridge or I don't know. I'd love a meal plan if someone would give it to me for lunch every day because I really don't wanna think about it. Right. And especially for women who hold so much of the mental load often. It can sometimes feel like just one more thing. I have to listen to my body about this right now also. Right. Like I have to think about it.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. I think restrictive diets can sometimes give people a false sense of control and they're like, okay, my life is in order and I'm eating what I'm supposed to be eating and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And then, yeah. But if you leave it to really connecting to yourself and listening to your body, there's so much more gray area and there's so much work that you have to do in order to just be present with yourself.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. Which is fantastic and so important. And also sometimes it's like, okay, people wanna balance, right? Mm-hmm. Like someone wants to be like, I'm gonna plan out my lunches for the week. Yeah. Even if I'm not necessarily in the mood of that on a Wednesday, because I just don't wanna think about it on a wednesday.
Rebecca Sigala:100%. I mean, that's one reason why it might be so hard for women to connect to their intuition and to their bodies. But why else do you think women are struggling with this?
Ahuva Hershkop:I think because we get so much of the message very, very early on that whatever we think about our bodies or whatever we feel about our bodies is wrong. Right? I say this all the time, and I used to say this in my nutrition practice as well, is, you know when people and parents will sometimes say to their kids who say, you know, I'm done eating, and parents are like, no, you're not. You need three more bites. Right. Even those early, we don't always realize how far disconnected we become from our bodies when we learn to default to other people. Right. And we continue so often to get these messages. Like if you think about, walking down the aisle as a teenager, we used to always have Teen Vogue and Cosmo, all of those magazines that will tell you all of the ways you're supposed to do something. You all the ways you're supposed to eat are supposed to look or supposed to. And if you feel a certain way, right? It's like all of those memes, like if you want chocolate, you really want apples. You're like, I really didn't, but okay. No, but there's so much of the messaging that what we can know about our bodies is just actually incorrect. Yeah. That there is so much built in self-doubt when women are even trying to listen to their bodies. Right? Right. When you have so message that you're wrong to begin with, you kind of stop trusting yourself to even listen to those messages.'cause why do you listen to someone who's wrong?
Rebecca Sigala:Right. Yeah. All the societal messaging kind of teaches us that we can't trust ourselves and we can't trust our bodies. And if we're hungry, then we should learn how to suppress our appetite. We can drink really thirsty drink water. We can
Ahuva Hershkop:if you're hungry, you're really thirsty,
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, exactly. that we shouldn't be able to trust our hunger cues that, we don't really know how hard we should be working out. just work out harder, you know? And I think that's where the diet culture part comes in, where It's not just the societal messaging, but there's also so many companies and, services that profit off women doubting themselves.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. And so I see it happen all the time again, whether it's, with food or, like I always say, if you are trained to not be able to listen to your body in that space or listen to yourself with how many more bites of food you need, it's really difficult to then trust yourself with, you know, can I make the decisions to run a business? Can I, stand up for myself when somebody else is, making a point that I don't agree with. Because if you can be so wrong about how many bites of food you need, again, how can you trust yourself in other areas of your life? And it kind of just cycles back into, well, if I can't trust myself there, then I also probably can't trust my intuition with my body. And if I can't trust my intuition with my body, then I can't trust myself in other places. Yeah. And we just get caught in this cycle of distrust where so many women trust in
Rebecca Sigala:life. Totally. Totally. It's so interconnected with everything. And actually I didn't always have it this way, but my group coaching program, the first module starts with intuition and self-trust. Because I realized if you don't have that foundation and the basis of giving yourself permission to start trusting yourself, then you can't do anything else. You can't make any changes.'cause you're like, why am I here? What am I doing? Maybe I'm wrong constantly. And then it holds you back from really making those significant changes in yourself.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. And it's interesting'cause mine does too when it comes to a professional setting because I'm like, you can't try anything if you can't trust yourself because the minute that you fail, that's it. You're a failure, you're done. Right? Yeah. The biggest skill that I was even able to hone as an entrepreneur was being able to trust myself enough to try things.
Rebecca Sigala:Right? Yeah.
Ahuva Hershkop:And so self trust is so important no matter where it is that you're trying to build skills.
Rebecca Sigala:Absolutely. Oh my gosh. There's so much failure and rejection that comes with being an entrepreneur constantly. all the time. Even when you are successful, especially when you're successful like that, that happens. Yeah. and there's a certain kind of resiliency and I think, yeah, like you said, self-trust that needs to be there. that those failures don't mean anything about you as a person. And sometimes looking at those things that are failures and seeing oh, how can you tweak them a little bit? But still knowing deep down, this was really good. This was amazing that I did this and I learned so much from it. I guess there's a lot, there's a lot to be said there in the entrepreneur space
Ahuva Hershkop:completely. Right. And the same things that make it easier for women to follow the meal plan instead of trusting their bodies. The same things that often holds women back, because if you try something new and you don't have that self-trust, it can feel so dangerous.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. And it kind of is so dangerous because if you don't trust yourself and then you do quote, unquote fail, then it's this emotional, I, I can't even describe it, I feel it in my body, but it's just like, yeah, it's dangerous if you take a chance and you don't trust yourself in it. yeah. And then there's just this dip in, Do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah. We've all been there. Describe, yeah. It's just like, you're a complete failure. everything's fallen apart. you can't pick yourself up as fast as you normally would. it's just really rough.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. A hundred percent right. you know, I remember like the first time that I did even like a launch or something in entrepreneurship and it didn't go the way that I wanted it to. And I was like, well, I guess I just gotta pack up my bag now because like, I'm done. It's over. It's done. There's nothing else I can do.'cause I was like, this is who I am as a person. Yeah. And in the same way.
Rebecca Sigala:And nobody wants this. And maybe Exactly. I was just being crazy and and it's so not
Ahuva Hershkop:true. Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's so pervasive until you learn how to hone that skill.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. And that's not an easy one. It's always a work in progress. Yes. Always, always. so if a woman is struggling with listening to her body, Where would you suggest for her to start if that's not something that they've even thought about before or done before?
Ahuva Hershkop:So I always recommend starting with curiosity because mm-hmm. I think sometimes people, again, there's a reason that when people are talking about intuitive eating, you don't necessarily start right with listening to your body. You put a framework in place, right. A lot of people will say, start eating every three to four hours, right? Put things in place so that you have somewhere to start. But I always like starting with curiosity. We don't often change things in advance. We learn in retrospect.
Rebecca Sigala:We don't often change things in advance. We learn in retrospect. Yeah.
Ahuva Hershkop:So it's like you learn the hard way. Exactly. Right. Your kids are driving you nuts and you yell at them, even though you promise yourself that you wouldn't. Right. Most often when you decide to stop yelling, you don't stop yelling at them. You yell and then you're like, huh, why'd I yell when I said I wasn't going to? Right. But there's only two ways that that goes. Either you're like, I yelled again, I'm a terrible person who is scarring her children, or you think I wanna change this, so let's get curious about why that is. And so when you're trying to trust your body, I always, remind people of just the fact that you learn in retrospect. So whether it is, you made a business decision and you didn't do the public speaking thing because you felt nervous, right? Yeah. Okay. Asking the question of why didn't I do it? I always like getting curious with a second why. Right? Because that's normally when some of the truth comes out. So it's, why didn't I do it? You know, because my body felt nervous because my body said no, A second version of that is what's the truer version of that? And normally that's where our brains kind of let their guard down a little bit and start answering, I was just scared, right? Mm-hmm. You can start actually differentiating between what your body is telling you. when you start getting to that deeper why, right? Mm-hmm. Same thing if we're eating a snack. Why did I want, I don't know. Because I was hungry. if there's a truer version of that or why did I eat something at night? This is something that happens to so many of my clients. why did you eat something at 11 o'clock or like 10 o'clock when you didn't really want to eat something then, right? Why? I don't know.'cause I just wanted something to eat. If there's a truer version of that. Very often I hear, you know what, because I wanted a little self-care or something, I wanted a little dopamine hit, but I didn't wanna inconvenience anyone and I didn't wanna call a babysitter to go out. somewhere. I didn't wanna spend money or I didn't wanna whatever, so I grabbed a bag of chips. Right? Right. And so starting to get curious about that second why can just actually start helping you understand your own motivations and just learn those signals just to be a bit better.
Rebecca Sigala:that's great. Curiosity. Okay. And then what,
Ahuva Hershkop:so, and then what I mean, number one is recognizing we don't have to change things in advance Right. so we can just focus on getting curious about it. And when we know, similar to what you were saying that you just started doing intuitively before, is we can then ask what are other ways that we can. Get that same outcome, right? Mm-hmm. If you're going for, I just wanted a little bit of self-care, but I didn't want inconvenience anybody, right? Starting to ask other questions around what's another way that we can do that? With your example, it's you know, I wanted whatever the food was, but I know it's gonna make me feel bad tomorrow, but there's clearly something that I want.
Mm-hmm. Right?
Ahuva Hershkop:Is it a similar food that kind of tastes as good? Is it just I wanted to walk to that coffee shop because I just wanted a little outing? Right. Understanding what those things are can help us put different things in place to either achieve the same goal and or, just starting to challenge the status quo a little bit. Right? So you're not doing the public speaking thing, but can you even spend five minutes a day, as silly as it sounds sometimes, but our brains are not so smart and they don't know the difference between reality and imagination. Just imagining yourself doing the speaking gig. Mm-hmm. Right? Just entertain the possibility of you doing that, right? Mm-hmm. You don't have to change what you're doing, but just to start reinforcing to your body like, okay, even this is just nerves and we can choose something different even though we're feeling this way,
Rebecca Sigala:something that serves us more.
Ahuva Hershkop:Exactly.
Rebecca Sigala:What would you say,'cause I know my listeners and a lot of them are trying to let go of diet culture and work through desire for thinness and things like that. What would you say if they're like, yeah, that sounds great, but I am not sure You know, am I making those decisions based off of the messages that I got from diet culture and just wanting to be small and wanting to lose weight? Or am I actually listening to my body? Do you know what I mean? we're talking about maybe this is not gonna make my body feel good. yeah. But then you could still, in that same breath be like, it's not gonna make me feel good because I think I'm going to gain weight and I'm gonna feel guilty, and then I don't feel good emotionally and I won't feel good in my body. And so it's very like inter time, like how do you pull that apart?
Ahuva Hershkop:that's a great question. One of the things, first of all, so to, to answer your question is something that I spend a long time with clients on inside my coaching program and in various ways is starting to unpack who's voice is that? Yeah.'cause the truth is that sometimes it's complicated, right? And I said sometimes I know that ice cream will not be great for me and sometimes I'll eat it anyway because I like ice cream and I'm not gonna go the rest of my life without eating it. Pralines and cream from Baskin Robbins happens to be the best flavor ever, but Right. Unpacking and really starting to get curious and ask the question. Sometimes to begin with it is intentional of whose voice am I hearing, saying this, right? Yeah.'cause sometimes a hundred percent it might be an old school teacher or your mother or a bully from middle school who's telling you not to eat the ice cream, right? And sometimes it's, oh no, I'm actually not gonna feel well tomorrow if I don't. Yeah. And it's coming from a different place. And so learning and it's why, you know, sometimes again, intuitive eating as you said, sometimes it can feel almost like another food rule because it's like, no, if you want the ice cream, eat the ice cream. Yeah, that's really simple, but it doesn't actually reflect who we are as people where sometimes eating the ice cream is not the best choice. Right, right. Number one and number, it's more
Rebecca Sigala:nuanced than that.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah, exactly. Right. and so sometimes there isn't as cut and dry, yes, eat the ice cream, don't eat the ice cream. It is understanding whose voice in this moment is telling me to either eat it or not. Right.
Rebecca Sigala:I think that's really hard too.'cause when people they have this desire for thinness, right? Yeah. But they don't want to have it. So they're working through it to let go of that belief. They still think, oh, that's my voice. It's very hard to be like, oh, okay. because I was body shamed at this age. And I took that messaging and still in my mind, they're like, no, but I want to be thinner. I want this, you know? And at the same time they realize it's holding them back.
Ahuva Hershkop:and that's often where the whys come in. Right? Because when we get down to I wanna be thinner. Why? Because then I would be more, confident or because then I would be prettier because then people would respect me more. Why? Because that's what. What like First Boss told me, right? Or what I read in Cosmo when I was 17, right? And so getting very curious about when that's happening, and again, it doesn't have to be in the moment because yes, in the moment, if you want ice cream and you're trying to figure all of this out, first of all, you're gonna ruin it. I don't know why I keep on using ice cream. People can eat whatever they want, but if you want it, it's gonna ruin it in the moment for you anyway. Like by the time that I've had a 45 minute thought about whether or not I would eat ice cream, it's not gonna taste good anyway. So don't do this, but after the fact, right? If you're great. Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:that's good advice.
Ahuva Hershkop:This is especially true for people who are struggling with intuitive eating, where sometimes you're giving yourself the worst of both worlds. And this happens as people often start intuitive eating, where you are creating the permission for yourself to do it. But you are not actually creating the mental permission where you're still beating yourself up beforehand and after. Yeah. You're doing the practice of trying to eat the food and you're trying to create change, but you're still making, but you still have so much guilt and self-criticism.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah.
Ahuva Hershkop:Right. And so afterwards, if you're sort of reflecting on it, or getting curious around practicing those why's and whose voice was it, that is telling me this in that moment can be really helpful. But also recognizing that, that is a complicated pattern, right? To start unpacking where it came from and differentiating between a voice that we've adopted as our own and starting to learn, actually maybe it was never yours to begin with,
Rebecca Sigala:is really, it's really doing the ongoing deeper inner work, but not necessarily always in the moment. You could ask yourself a couple questions, but I do totally see how that totally hijacks the present moment and just, you know, enjoying that food or making another decision and just moving on versus dwelling in it. Totally. Wow. Okay. That's really great advice. Okay, so curiosity. That was number one. And then number two is what, what did we say?
Ahuva Hershkop:So it is curiosity after the fact, right? Okay. After the fact. Yes. Um, to, to start differentiated between whose voice is whose. making sure that if you're trying to unpack, again, like we still have these values. I even get curious around, like, a lot of people stay in so much struggle with but I shouldn't feel this way. Right?
Rebecca Sigala:Mm-hmm. Right.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. I, I work a lot with my clients on that. Yes. Like, I shouldn't have this desire for thinness. Why not? Like society is made where it's so much easier if you are a thin person. maybe you don't have to act in accordance with that, but holding all of the guilt around I shouldn't have this desire.
Rebecca Sigala:Like of course you feel that way.
Ahuva Hershkop:Of course you do. Of course. And you know, I used to have this with parents that I was, talking to also where they were like, I don't wanna pressure my kids. And also there's a part of me that wants them to be 50th percentile, right? Like average. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, of course there is. Because that's where the label will be easiest. Right.
Rebecca Sigala:Their life will be easier. They'll fit in accepted, all that. Totally. Of course you want your kids to have an easier time. Yeah. And also I think it also does definitely point to how we feel about ourselves and our own experience of our body growing up.
Ahuva Hershkop:Right. And so if you're trying to sort of unpack all of that understanding, you know, again, whose voice it is, understanding where it's coming from, letting go even of your own judgment of the situation.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah.
Ahuva Hershkop:it can be really important, but then also, you know, when you are trying to do the work of letting go of those ideals, right. getting curious about what you actually think is on the other side of it. Mm-hmm. Right. It's something that is really important. Both, as you spoke about before with the perfectionism, there's always that thought around like, if I could just, then I would be able to. Yeah. Right. That happens in so many areas of our lives. And getting curious really on number one, what you think is, possible on the other side of this thing that you're holding, again, whether it's the last, you know, 10 pounds you've been focusing on for 20 years, or a promotion that you're trying to focus on, and any tiny ways that that's actually possible for you or that you already have those things.
Mm-hmm.
Ahuva Hershkop:Right. Because very often we keep ourselves stuck on like, it's only gonna happen if I can get these things. And we miss, A perfect example is actually I was running a class around, you know, perfectionism, work life balance for new moms. And I had this, mom who was there with a six week old and she was telling me how unbelievably guilty that she felt because she couldn't breastfeed, she just wasn't able to, and she had wanted to and she couldn't. And she was like, I feel so guilty because, I'm robbing my child of that closeness and that connection time with her, right? Yeah. She was saying this to me while holding the six week old, like against her chest. Aw. Yeah. And I was like, are you aware that you are literally doing this, as we speak? Right. And sometimes all of these ways that we're thinking things are only possible if I could, like if she could breastfeed, then she would have that opportunity. And I was like, you're not even your brain is playing with you where you literally have that as I'm looking at you. But you can't even see it because we get ourselves so distracted, right? Totally. And so there's many things our brains like us to think are only possible on the other side of something that we actually have now.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the biggest thing in my work is I'll only be confident in my body if my body changes, if it looks the way that I think it's supposed to look or society thinks it's supposed to look, that's when I'll be confident. That's when I'll like my body. And it's so far from the truth. There is so much in the present moment that we already have. I do that a lot. That's a big mindset work that I do is okay, why do I want this? Freedom and validation and feeling confident and having a zest for life and all these things. Okay. how can I give that to myself now? why do I think that numbers on a scale is gonna give that to me? You know?
Ahuva Hershkop:Totally. Totally, totally. Yeah. And it's so easy to do it. It's like you know that there's a right way that that's supposed to look right. There's a right way confidence is supposed to look. There's a right way that. You know, all of these things like No, no. It sexiness is supposed to look. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, it's so easy to keep it on the other side of something instead of recognizing oh, I'm literally doing the exact thing that I wanna be doing now.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm. So what's the biggest message that you would wanna give to women right now about listening to their bodies?
Ahuva Hershkop:I think that it's, my message that I tell them about everything is, you know, we're a culture that is very obsessed with getting things right, right? Again, I think the power of some of those infographics of like, if you want chocolate, you really want an apple just plays on the fact that we wanna be able to get it right. I wanna know that when I want chocolate, I really want chocolate. Or when I'm making this, like I really am getting this right. And we need to let go of the fear around getting it wrong in order to actually understand what's right for us.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Right.
Ahuva Hershkop:cause sometimes it does take, eating the chocolate when you actually didn't really want chocolate, you wanted to go for a walk or I don't know, making a business decision and saying yes when you really wanted to say no to learn in retrospect, that wasn't really what you wanted.
Rebecca Sigala:Well you only know that something doesn't make you feel good in your body from actually eating. Exactly. You know? Yeah. And sometimes, you might think, oh, well it'll be fine. Or whatever, and then you don't feel good or you do feel good and you just have to take notes and Yeah. Adjust as, as things move forward.
Ahuva Hershkop:Exactly. Which just easier done sometimes.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Where are you, on your own personal journey with this? With intuitive eating or with mm-hmm. and like listening to your body. is it something that is still evolving for you?
Ahuva Hershkop:I think it's always something that is evolving. Right? I happen to be someone who, my body is one of my biggest indicators of, where my brain is at. Like when all of a sudden I'm, I tend to when I'm stressed, I don't have as much of an appetite. And so suddenly when I'm like, huh, I haven't been as hungry for the last couple of days. Right? Like, why is that? those kind of things are normally, an earlier indicator of okay, I'm going through a stressful period. Yeah. Um, but I think that it's always like it's ever evolving right. In terms of hundred percent of our ability to do it. and you know, I think that my relationship, even with intuitive eating from going from Complete diet culture, going into dietetics for, I wanted to do sports nutrition because food is fuel for performance. Okay. That was why I originally got into, that's like a
Rebecca Sigala:whole nother conversation
Ahuva Hershkop:that was like a whole other thing. and then going into, you know, all of the sort of like shoulds around giving yourself permission, right? Like you should always give yourself permission to eat whatever you want. And so coming back into actually continuously doing what's right for me, I feel like is always an ever evolving, practice. And just as you said, like continuing to get curious around okay, this happened that time, but this happened that time, or I ate this thing this time and it did make me feel good and I ate that thing last time and it didn't make me feel good. and honestly stopping to think so much about it, right? Yeah, sometimes. it's great to get curious and sometimes it's also great just to be.
Rebecca Sigala:I feel like I finally understood my hunger cues and was really feeling in a good place with intuitive eating and just listening to my body. And then I got diagnosed with ADHD, and now I take medicine for it, which takes away some of my hunger. And it was, it's such a mind fuck. At first I was just like, oh my God. what is this? And I mean, I, think it's balanced out and you know, I still feel hungry and I still listen to my body, but at first I was like, what is happening? Yes, a hundred percent.
Ahuva Hershkop:I see that a lot with, people who take ADHD medication actually, because it can change things, right? And so that happens. All the time. and that's true. Like you start something like a new medication or you know, pregnancy or like hormones change. Yeah. Or stressful times, right? again, our bodies aren't always like set it and forget it kind of thing. Definitely not. They're always changing. Yeah. It's constantly changing and you just have to relearn what's happening.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. And to adapt again, and I guess, you know, under having these skills to listen to your body and connect to yourself, then you can do it once, you can do it again as your body changes and just, use those same skills to adapt and to reconnect yourself and come back to yourself.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yeah. But it is definitely complicated when something interrupt those. Things, right? Like sometimes, again, when I have stressful periods and all of a sudden I'm not really feeling my hunger or my fullness, you know, I'm sure that I'm hungry at some point, and then you know, the anxiety will spike and I don't feel hungry. Um, right. It feel really stressful when you're like, okay, but I can't listen to my body right now. And that's sometimes even where, going back to basics, right? having permission to not always listen to your body is nice, right? Yeah. Sometimes I like that. Like, I like that, right? I go back to eating every three to four hours when I know that I'm not gonna feel hungry because I'm stressed and I'm like, all right, you have permission to not listen to those cues right now and just do what you know is gonna work.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. And that's like letting go of the shoulds and the perfectionism and just doing what's best for you in the moment. sometimes that doesn't look like following something to the T, which is, I guess, kind of what I was saying in the beginning, which is I don't wanna like necessarily ascribe to anything because yeah, that does bring in a lot of perfectionism. Like, okay, now I need to be someone who listens to my body all the time. that's not possible.
Ahuva Hershkop:Yes, a hundred percent.
Rebecca Sigala:Awesome. Where can people find you if they wanna learn more from you?
Ahuva Hershkop:I hang out on Instagram a lot. My handle is@ahuvahershkop, or on LinkedIn where I'm Ahuva Magder Hershkop.
Rebecca Sigala:Oh, on LinkedIn.
Ahuva Hershkop:I'm on LinkedIn, yes.
Rebecca Sigala:Wow, fun. Okay. Awesome. Thanks for being here and thanks for sharing your wisdom. I really connected to so much of what you said, and I'm sure that someone who is just starting this journey and wants to connect to their body. I know that they're gonna get so much out of this episode, but also people who are on this journey and their bodies are changing and their life is changing and really learning how to, readjust and come back to themselves, and go back to those basics of just getting curious again and letting go of the perfectionism. I think it's such a beautiful thing.
Ahuva Hershkop:Well, thank you for having me. It was great to be here.
Rebecca Sigala:You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks for being here.