The Body Image Revolution
The Body Image Revolution
The Holiness of Seeing Your Own Light With Raizel Devorah
“I want to teach you why boudoir is holy,” Raizel Devorah said to me one day—and this powerful conversation was born.
In this episode, I’m joined by the brilliant Raizel Devorah Masail, healer, educator, and host of Soul Talks, as we dive deep into a Torah-based exploration of body image, beauty, and sexuality.
We explore what it means to be made in the image of G-d, how modern society has distorted the essence of tzniut (modesty), and how cultivating a positive self-image and healthy relationship with our sexuality can transform how we connect with ourselves, our partners, and with G-d.
This is a beautiful and empowering conversation you won’t want to miss.
Raizel Devorah Masail | Patreon
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Hello, beautiful souls. Welcome to the Body Image Revolution. Today I have a deeply meaningful conversation to share with you with Raizel Devorah, who is a healer and educator and host of Soul Talks, her incredible podcast. I actually met her years ago. When I came to her for acupuncture and healing, and I've never been able to quite describe her, she's that special. One of those people who you can tell really understands things and sees the world and human beings on a deeper level. She's extremely learned and spiritual and empathetic, and once you hear her speak, you'll know exactly what I mean. We met up in my studio recently to see how we could possibly collaborate. And she said that she wanted to teach me why boudoir is holy. And that just lit me up because it's something that I deeply know, I've always known and I don't always talk about it, but girl, give me sources'cause they definitely can't hurt with all the craziness that women are up against in this world. So we talk about all of that, about body image, about beauty, about sexuality. All from a Torah perspective and how it connects to both of our work, and I'm just so, so honored to have her on and share this with all of you. I can't believe we fit this into an episode because there are so many beautiful gems and so much wisdom that you're about to experience. I hope you enjoy as much as I did. Hello.
Raizel Devorah:Good morning.
Rebecca Sigala:Good morning. I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you. Same here. We've been having little tidbits of it leading up to today and there's so much that we want to cover, but it's going to be really good and really interesting. And I know that, my listeners are going to get so much out of this.
Raizel Devorah:Thank you. And Dito, same on my end. we've been discussing a little bit back and forth where to go together'cause there's so much. I think, starting point can be bodies and beauty from a Torah perspective.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Bodies and beauty. This is something that comes up a lot for me because I've been on my journey in my career and also my healing journey, which I feel is very side by side. something that I see a lot because we both live in Israel and I live here as well in a religious community. And I am really passionate about helping women feel comfortable and beautiful in their bodies as they are. And I get so much pushback about that in the religious community and not necessarily, from a sexuality standpoint, which that's like a whole nother conversation, but even just the fact that I wanna help women embrace their bodies as they are. I feel that even as a spiritual community or religious community, we're still so, distant from these ideas and this concept of loving your body as it is. Is that something that you've ever explored or thought of in your work?
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. It actually comes up a lot in my work with women as well. And as you say it, what goes through my mind is, it's so opposite of what's supposed to be. It's so not Torah. It's so not Am Yisrael. If we even go all the way, all the way back when we were really being molded and formed as a nation. And when we were taken out of Mitzraim. We were told that the woman had these mirrors made out of copper. And when Hashem was instructing Moshe to build the Mishkan, there was, one part of the Mishkan, this like wash basin, for the kohanim to wash their feet, that was made from these mirrors that the woman had. It was made from the copper, from the mirrors of the woman. And Hashem davka wanted that included in the Mishkan. And part of it was because these women understood how to use beauty to guide, to lift the energy they were going through really hard times. They understood that one of the worst things that could happen is if those hard times crush them.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm.
Raizel Devorah:So all the way back then, in the Mishkan, is this symbol of understand even the physical beauty of what you've been given.
Rebecca Sigala:That was one of the things that really drew me into Judaism early on was that, it wasn't that we should just let go of all physicality and materialism, but actually these things are also given to us by G-d and things that we can uplift and they're actually holy. And I think that so much of my work has become that. Fusing the physical and the spiritual and actually seeing how not separate they are.
Raizel Devorah:Yes, Intertwined. Yeah. And, and that's what we're taught. That we're made up of guf and neshama, body and soul.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm-hmm.
Raizel Devorah:And the neshama is bringing this light, and we always want to connect more and more to the source of that light. Bring more and more down, emanate that light and share it with the world. It becomes a really, really big problem in doing that when one is filled with negativity towards their body. Because the body is the vessel for all that to, ground and emanate from. And so it literally happens and you sometimes you see this people who want to reject the body and only seek the spiritual.
Rebecca Sigala:Right.
Raizel Devorah:It's always being used as an escape and is always coming from an unhealthy place because it's only through the body that we can reach higher levels of the spiritual.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm-hmm.
Raizel Devorah:The minute we don't have the body, we don't have the opportunity'cause we're not in this world. So what we're saying when we wanna reject the body, we don't wanna be in this world. Wow. But the gift is only through the body. So a lot of your work with women is helping them clear that block literally. Right?
Rebecca Sigala:That really hit me when you said, when we reject the body, we're saying we don't wanna be in this world.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:Wow. Okay. So there's that one end, and then there's the hyper fixation on the body. There's, it's like almost two ends of the spectrum in a way of like, okay, well I'm this spiritual being and I shouldn't care about my body or my beauty and the outward appearance. And then there's beauty standards and diet culture and the modern day world that we live in.
Raizel Devorah:The obsession, yeah. Obsession with it. Those are two extreme ends of a spectrum. And what we'll always find in Judaism and in Torah is that we're looking for balance. We're looking for the harmony. So if the self negativity towards body is blocking the person from wanting to be in this world or wanting to connect to their body, they're gonna lack that balance, that harmony and their light won't be harmonious and it won't shine, and they'll struggle fulfilling their purpose in life. And the exact same thing will happen on the other end of the spectrum. If there's this over focus on the physical, this obsession, it's often this energy of it's never enough because you can't maintain that perfection. Right. So then that person is always never enough. And that's in the same way going to block that light, block the balance, block the harmony and get in their way of them fulfilling their purpose.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. And that perfection or that standard it's so subjective as well. It's based on these very arbitrary definitions of what perfection would be or what beauty would be. cause someone in one part of the world could have a certain beauty standard. Like, fair skin is prized and beautiful on one side of the world, other side, you have to be as tan as possible. Go to tanning booth. Exactly. Go to the beach, and the same person is having a different insecurity about the same thing. I mean, it's just trying to give an example of the fact that it's these made up standards. And what I try to help women do with my work is redefine what beauty means to them. Redefine what sexy means to them, and not only redefine it, but expand it so that they can start to see the beauty in themselves and in other people, without basing it off of what we've been told.
Raizel Devorah:Right. And that's where all the power is. When their mind is free, they'll be at peace. That's where you're leading them to that inner peace. They get to retake their own power of what they think looks good for them. It's like you see all these teens, whenever there's a new fad, you see teens and sometimes adults, they have to get those boots or that sweater because someone famous wore it or whatever. And I always think it's kind of amusing how some people look good in it, but some people don't. And someone should tell them like, oh honey, for your body type, that's not the best thing to wear. Wear what's good for you. But no, the standard was set that that is what they have to wear. And, and then they're held by it, bound by it.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. It does really feel like people are bound by these definitions and these standards, and it just becomes so black and white. I'm pretty, or I'm not, you know, these beautiful woman, this is a beautiful woman, this is a smart woman. This is a, this woman, everyone has these boxes that they, have attributed themselves to, or other people have told them that that's what they are or that's what they're not. And then they're bound by these definitions for their entire life. And you're right, there's just this sense of not having a piece of mind not being free in your mind and in your soul.
Raizel Devorah:Yep. And I suspect that most people feel it. You feel that burden? Yeah. Most people, I suspect, would be relieved to be freed from that. Yeah. And part of it is, very detailed work that you take people through. And part of it is this bigger picture of getting them to focus on their own light. Yeah. That is also slow work because it can take time for someone to learn to feel and see their own light in a higher capacity level by level. Mm, step by step. But the more we do tune into our light, coming from our soul, the more we hear our own soul talking to us, it's going to add to that light that we're emanating from within us. It's going to add to our inner balance, inner our harmony. And again, that feeling of peace. And the more we have that in us, the less we're focused on what other people think.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, that's so true. I really resonate with that. So I remember during one of our initial conversations you said, I wanna teach you why boudoir is holy. I was like, yes, please teach me. that's exactly, first of all, I've been doing this work for, 12 years now and I've always felt that it is deeply holy work. And it was so cool that you said that to me because, well, first of all, I just really think you're very special and I love learning from you. I actually, started listening to your podcast as well, and I really, really have been enjoying it. And I'm curious what made you think that, what made you say that?
Raizel Devorah:I think it's this conversation that we've just been having that makes me think it for me, I know it to be what it is, so powerfully because when one is struggling with their own self-image, struggling to see their own light, struggling to feel good in their own body, we've already discussed how deeply rooted it is in everything that went into forming them. Yeah. Their society. Sometimes their own parents, their social world. Yeah. Now, the brain of the human being tends to lean towards the negative. Mm-hmm. This has been studied. So we tend to lean towards negativity. Right. We need to use everything that we can to get us leaning towards positivity. This is a Torah concept. This is everywhere for us in Judaism. Nowadays, we understand that we can rewire the brain. So when someone is stuck in a self negative pattern of thinking, I'm gonna take a silly example. Oh, my skin is awful. And they grow up maybe teenage years, they have some pimples. Or maybe they were told that their skin doesn't shine by someone somewhere. Once. And. They're brain formed with this, oh, my skin is awful. Oh, I wish I had skin like hers. And it wired the brain that way.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm-hmm.
Raizel Devorah:even 20 years later, someone comes along and goes, oh, your skin looks great today. They might not even believe it. They might not take it in. So they need something to rewire.
Rebecca Sigala:Or they might think oh, she is saying that because it's usually not good. Or whatever. Exactly. Because they have this narrative about their skin.
Raizel Devorah:Exactly. And it's wired into them. So we know now that it's possible to rewire the brain. There's two ways to do it. One is repetition, so like affirmations, therapy, over and over and over again. And that is thousands of times. And that takes time. Yeah. The other way to do it is boudoir photography. Literally. You have to shock the brain in to seeing something differently. And I'm convinced that when someone works with you, with all the lead up, I know you do coaching and you do a lot of lead up to the actual session, and then they have this experience of, maybe you can explain better their experience. But boudoir photography is a whole however long it is, a whole experience. And then, they get the photos of themselves, right? Yeah. They see it. When they see those photos with everything leading up because everything was such a positive experience. So you've been building them, holding them slowly, transforming them already and how they think and see. Yeah. When they see those photos, I believe that it is powerful enough to shock the brain to see themselves differently.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Wow. I feel like you're describing it so perfectly. Actually, just a couple weeks ago I had a client who, during the session we were talking a little bit and we took a break and I generally don't show them all their pictures while I'm photographing them.'cause actually, one of the modalities that I use is film photography, so they can't even see that anyway. But I do have these little Polaroids, these little Instax that I'll take throughout the session. And then at the end, or even throughout the session, they see it and they're just fun. And she was looking at these Polaroids as we were on a break and she was just shocked. She said, I can't believe I love them so much. Like I knew they would be good, but. I didn't think I would feel this way. And as I started talking to her a little bit more, it was really clear that it wasn't because of even the physical picture. It was this whole process that I was leading her up to that. Even before she walked into my studio, she was already feeling better about herself. She had already changed the way that she saw herself when she looked in the mirror and then the image was evidence of that transformation that she was already having within her mind. It became real, it became tangible. When she saw it, she was like, oh yeah, that's true because I've already been doing that work internally.
Raizel Devorah:Yes, exactly. And I bet on her face it showed the minute she saw it and what you see on her face when she sees that, that look of whoa, is showing you that the brain pathways have opened that something shifting in her brain and then the research shows that there's actually a window of time after that. I wanna say six hours, but I can't say that for sure. But I think it's about five or six hours after where it's prime time to help that set in. So you can actually have some kind of check-in in those follow-up hours with them or tell them to keep,
Rebecca Sigala:oh, that's amazing. I didn't even know that, but I do that. There you go. I didn't even know that like scientifically, but i, first of all, I help them plan their day before and afterwards so that it's not just they run into the session and then they run out and they go back to work and pick up their kids. I want them to really create this day and have the space for themselves even after they leave my studio. And then when they leave my studio, I give them a little, gift bag of snacks and gifts and things like that. And then one of the things is a little card that has journal prompts on them, which helps them integrate what they've experienced that day. Well, what did you feel? What did you think about yourself? You know, how are these things true? How do you wanna remind yourself of these things? I don't know the exact journal prompts off the top of my head, but really as a way to integrate these new beliefs and feelings that you have about yourself so it's not just a one-off experience. So I love that that's backed by science.
Raizel Devorah:So what you're doing is brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. And anyone else who's working with women without this, opportunity of boudoir, it's possible that they have other ways of getting that shift in the brain. Yeah, definitely. A something, it's gonna either be a weaker version of that work or it's gonna take longer. Right, right. And you've probably seen this, that you're fighting against so much. I mean, you can be working with someone, who could be considered drop dead gorgeous, whatever that means. Right. But consider, right, right. According to beauty standards. and you just want to make them feel it and make them see it. And you've probably experienced over and over how much you're fighting against Yeah. Working with someone.
Rebecca Sigala:I mean, definitely when I started and I started seeing that it didn't matter what people looked like or what other people thought about them, most women struggled, or almost every woman that I've met has struggled in some way with the way that she sees herself. And I just wanted to shake people. I was like, but you're so beautiful. You're so powerful. You're so incredible. I wanna show it to you. And it is really cool to have this tool of photography. Obviously it's more than photography, but, for that to be part of it, that I can actually physically show them. Because convincing someone into it saying, you're so beautiful, or like, that doesn't work. I also learned that very early on, you can love bomb someone. You can give them all the compliments in the world. That's not gonna change the way they see themselves.
Raizel Devorah:Right. it needs a program.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They need to see it, it needs to come from within them.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah.
Rebecca Sigala:So I guess you know, we talked a little bit about how the religious world or spiritual world has manifested, in the way of seeing bodies or body positivity. And then there's this other piece of sexuality, and I know that you're really passionate about helping women and couples embrace their sexuality. I'd love to hear more about that.
Raizel Devorah:Yes, and definitely very passionate about that. Part of my work as a healer is I also work a lot with couples and it is hard to work with a couple, and I would say this for most women I've worked with as well, hard to just work with a woman and sexuality not come up or their sex life not come up or something. Because it's a real struggle for most people nowadays. And there's a lot out there addressing it. But within the context of our world, in Israel, or in the Jewish, and particularly religious community at large, throughout the world, there's a lot of, what I would call oppression. I don't know if you've experienced that. Yeah. and this misunderstanding of what our sexuality serves.
Rebecca Sigala:How would you define the oppression?
Raizel Devorah:well, the first word that comes to me is patriarchy. Yeah. I think we live in it. And we swim in it. Yeah. Which again, is an irony because Judaism is so not patriarchal at its essence. Yeah. But what we experience community wise. Because it's been distorted is highly patriarchal.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. and I think even hearing that word for a lot of people that I know is difficult. The patriarchy, it's very triggering for people, especially people who are in this culture and are embracing their spirituality and Torah and they think it's almost against those values to call it out.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. And especially what, one of the courses on the Soul Talk site that we ran was on Mikva, because we also have a lot of this tension around Mikva and a lot of this misunderstanding around mikva. Oh, it's the holiest night of your month and you know, basically you gotta do it that night, whether you're in the mood or not. Right. it's on the woman and she has to go out and she has to dip in the mikva and she has to come back and and be ready. Yeah. And the pressure and the, routineness and then it's sold as this thing of, oh, and this is how you're gonna keep your marriage alive. And that's a lie. Yeah. A in depth study of mikva will show that chazal map out strategies of how to keep your marriage not alive moving upwards.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm.
Raizel Devorah:And the male and female attraction that people often experience when they're first dating. We wanna keep that moving upwards. But most marriages, trajectory is downwards. Yeah. 10, 15, 20 years of marriage, the same person, and they're not getting any younger and and and. So some people find that the passion kind of fizzles out. Right. But chazal are very specific of how to keep it not just alive, but how to keep it evolving. And they make it very clear that sex is holy, sexuality is holy. And I think all this, talk about, oh, it's just for your husband. I think that's just a little bit twisted because there's a truth in that, that. What you are sharing with your spouse for the woman, with the husband, for the husband, with the wife or spouse in general. What you're sharing with them is just for the other, right. But it doesn't mean, and cover it up and dress like a schlub and don't connect to your own natural sexuality when you live. Doesn't mean that. It means know where you're channeling it to,
Rebecca Sigala:yeah, and I think having this mindset of like, it's just for my partner, but it's not for me. People can sometimes lose themselves in it. Like for example, when I first started doing my work, in the beginning years, it was more, this is a photo shoot. And of course I held emotional space for people. And for some people it was extremely powerful, but it's not the framework that it is today. And so there'd be a lot more women that would come to me and say, well, I wanna do this as a gift for my husband. But sometimes, they didn't even wanna do it themselves. And so I noticed a few times that I can think of where someone did it when they didn't really wanna do it themselves. It was such a disempowering experience. And then it was just like, oh, well what kind of lingerie would he like or take pictures of this?'cause he likes this part of my body. And they didn't see it as an opportunity for them to learn more about themselves And to feel amazing and beautiful in their skin, and then share a piece of them with their partner. It was just like, what can I do to prove and make you happy and give of myself. But then there wasn't a groundedness in who they were.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. And it goes under the rules of patriarchy too. Yeah. Why would a woman even think that way? It's not even a rational way of thinking if you think about it, because what women and men find, attractive is when the other person is in the mood, not when they're just doing it for you. Like, that's not what people want. So even the thinking is, and it's amazing basically that you saw that happening and then you elevated from there.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah, absolutely. if someone even comes to me now and they say, well, I wanna do it as a gift for my partner, I'm like, great, that's amazing. That's really special. Why do you wanna do this for yourself? Exactly. Like, what could you get out of it? Because that's where it needs to start. I think that's where, I mean, I know we talked about this a little bit even before the conversation of like doing it for your partner, sexuality for your partner. only. There has to be a, claiming of self first. Does that resonate with you? Yes. And the work that you do?
Raizel Devorah:Yes, very much so. So a lot of times when people are struggling, sexually, what we end up working on is, in the sefirotic system, one of the 10 Sefirot is called Yesod. And that's the sefira that sits on the central line over the pubic bone. So in the trunk of the body on the lowest point on the center. And that's the sefira that also sits right over the sexual organ. Mm. So because of its location, everyone understands, oh, yesod has a lot to do with sexuality. But, a lot of my work with people is actually in the realm of yesod because Yesod means foundation. So it's the foundation that formed who they are, which means from birth until adulthood, everything that went into them, their childhood experiences, the people who raised them, the society, even the country they were raised in all helped to form how their yesod operates. And at a very young age, their sexual identity is forming as well. So this whole world of what I call inner child all the way through teenage years is intertwined with sexual identity.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm.
Raizel Devorah:So when I'm working with someone on sexuality, a woman or a man, sometimes they're just, they're never really in the mood. They're not that interested. They could do without it, but their partner wants, or, a couple might say the passion has died out. it's just not there. We're in the mood, but it's no good. Or, someone could say, I want to, and I'm in the mood, but then I kind of lose interest at some point.
Mm-hmm.
Raizel Devorah:So I always rule out the physical. are they getting enough sleep and is everything okay hormonally? we always just Right. Like that's the first Exactly. But usually 95 to 99% of the time it's emotional. It's connected to either what they've gone through in that relationship with their partner or intertwined with their childhood. Yeah. And so a lot of the deep work and sexuality is actually deep inner child work because you can't separate the, two sexual identity and the inner child were forming together and they're located in the same energetic domain of one's soul structure. The sefirot are the energetic domains. There's 10 of them of the structure of the soul. So yesod is one of the 10, and it is affecting so much of how they live and how they manifest. Because the energy has to flow through the upper sefirot all the way down into yesod. And from yesod there's only one channel of flow into Malhut. If someone were to be listening to this, they can bring up a picture of the Sefirot. Okay. You'll see that there's 10 and there's three pillars. And all the way towards the bottom on the middle pillar is yesod. And then there's one line going downwards to the very bottom, which is malchut. So if yesod sits at the bottom of the trunk, Malchut sits in between the feet and Malchut is, translated as kingship. Mm. And in the physical, human experience from the soul structure, it's your physical kingdom. So it's everything that manifests for you in this physical world. But all the energy from
Rebecca Sigala:they have to go through yesod before it comes out. Exactly. That's so interesting because I talk a lot about feeling sexy and people get really triggered by that word, but that's also part of my process is helping women redefine sexy. I bring them through a visualization of when they felt their sexiest and when they describe it to me, it's freedom, it's safety, it's desire, it's creativity, it's all of these things which are a state of being an emotion a, sensation even in their bodies. And so when I talk about sexuality, I always tell people yes, it could be intimacy and sex, but it's also a lot of other things. And I feel like it's almost for women, a kind of creative life force.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. It's a flow and in Chinese medicine also, it's very much seen as a flow of energy. Very much is just an amazing book Wow. About how we can circulate that energy to give us even more energy.
Rebecca Sigala:So if someone on the surface level is like telling you that they are not really in the mood and they're not really connected to their sexuality and pleasure, then do you just go straight into inner child work or how does that, they completely, how does that work?
Raizel Devorah:It completely depends. I'm always evaluating what is the block for them. Mm-hmm. So first and foremost, if there's sexual abuse in their childhood, then I'm very, cautious. And the work takes on a very different look. Yeah. Because we're dealing with the trauma. That needs to be cleared and released. Yeah. But I need do it differently than if we're looking at, you know, maybe they married someone who's constantly putting them down and basically sending them the message, whether the person means to or not, that they're just not good enough and, you know, the extra pound that they gained after four babies just, you know, is always being told to them as like a thing. And, I mean, sounds awful. It breaks my heart. And what if it's that? Right. So it's a very, very different scenario. And there's a few ways that it works. One is, helping people come into their bodies more. Yeah. So they could feel themselves. And helping them connect to their light more so they can be at peace with themselves. And I have different modalities. Yeah. But it usually comes back around to inner child work. So even the, I do five element acupuncture, which is one of the most powerful modalities I've ever come across. and I do a lot of energy work working on the soul structure and clearing blocks and that's what the sefirot and the whole energy system of the soul. But nothing does what inner child work does if inner child work is needed. And for most people nowadays it is. Yeah. So I usually get to that. Some people come to me just for that. Some people come to me for other things. And most of the time it comes to that. And with couples, I'm particularly trained in a method to do inner child work with the partner in the room. It is very powerful. Very powerful, and could be very healing for the way that they move sexual energy in between themselves.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm. So I feel like there's so many blocks to this work. Just even like surface level blocks, which we mentioned of, okay, this isn't something that I want to, that I don't think is so important because maybe that's not how spirituality was presented to me, or healing was presented to me. Why is it important to feel sexual? Why is it important to feel sexy or beautiful or like the way that I look? And one of the things we mentioned was, okay, well, but it's only for my spouse. we touched on that a little bit. And then another thing is Tzniut and this idea of modesty. And I think even if people know logically, okay, sexuality is something that's important, there's still this sense of like, but there's something wrong with it. Or there's something immodest about either talking about it or exploring it or feeling that way even by yourself. And I'm curious how you approach that.
Raizel Devorah:Right. There's a lot of that in the religious, world. there's a lot of this in general. Talk about, oh, that's not tzniut, oh, that's not modest. Oh, you can't dress that. Oh, oh, oh. And that alone for a child to grow up with that and through the teenage years, that alone is enough to kind of put this, blanket over the natural flow of sexual energy through one's own system, which is a nightmare for them when they come to have sexual intimacy after they're married and they can't access what they should be accessing. So, you are naming something that comes up for a lot of people. I know that it did for me as well growing up religious. Yeah. It did affect, and what it's gonna come down to is this fundamental misunderstanding of what tzniut is. Most people don't even realize that tzniut it's not even a word that comes up in Torah a lot. There's a source for it. It's not in Torah. It's farther on in Micha. Which is already an area that a lot of people are unfamiliar with. And it is actually one of my favorite lines. I'm gonna, can I read it? Yeah, I'd love to. so this is like the source in Tanach for the word tzniut. I'll read it in Hebrew and then we'll translate it. A man should tell you what is good and what Hashem seeks from you. So we're, we're touching on this conversation of what is Hashem, what is G-d seeking from us? Is it not to do or for you to do mishpat which is often translated as justice, but it's a word that, always is going to imply things making sense. Like, a sentence in Hebrew, the term for a sentence is a mishpat. So a sentence has to make sense. So when there's a judgment, when there's a ruling from a judge, it has to make sense. This is halachicly important. The loving of Chessed, which is the loving of expansiveness. And the third thing is, and in tzniut you walk with your G-d. Wow. So reference for tzniut is in how one is walking their path. With G-d with them, In
Rebecca Sigala:tzniut you walk with G-d
Raizel Devorah:so we're supposed to reach a level, which by the way, it makes me think of something I wanna say about that. As we're walking on our path in this world, we are asked to reach a level where we're walking with G-d, what that means has levels and levels to that alone. Mm-hmm. And this idea of tzniut is in that and how we're walking, how we're moving.
Rebecca Sigala:That is so beautiful. That's not how people see tzniut today.
Raizel Devorah:Not at all, they do talk about how a woman walks, but what they leave out exactly. Yeah. By way, this wasn't written for just woman. Yeah. And this wasn't written about how one dresses, if one is walking with G-d. It's already implying that there's a certain level of tahara, of purity that one has reached in their service of G-d and their flow in life. Tahara, the best translation for that, for purity I've ever heard is it's the authenticity of your soul being expressed. Because when something is without any impurities. It's shining as it is. And we want our soul, our neshama, to really shine in this world as it is. And so the work of tahara, the work of purification, is removing all the things that block my light from shining like negative self image. Yeah. So if one is reaching this level, then one is in their soul, they're really shining who they are. And that is teaching us about what tzniut is to really be authentic and shine. Who you are. where it is taken to in society is you're royalty. You're part of Am Yisrael you must dress like royalty, right?
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah.
Raizel Devorah:So. Yes, there's a truth, but like
Rebecca Sigala:that's little triggering to me.
Raizel Devorah:Exactly. Exactly. Because then they tell you what it, but it's not coming from
Rebecca Sigala:the same place.
Raizel Devorah:Right. Yes. And why I'm bringing it up is to share where they even got that from. There's some truth in that. Yeah.'cause the authenticity of a soul is utter royalty, utter shine, utter glow. Yeah. Light. So then we have to dress in a way that befits us. Yes. And you know what that means? It means that to dress like a schlub, like a just all black ratty old skirt and just throw on a black sweater, is the opposite of tzniut. Just as much as what they're saying is the lack of tzniut, so we have to take that into account,
Rebecca Sigala:right. Wow. it's a really strong concept because it's not about the way that other people perceive you. It's saying that it's more important how I perceive myself and in perceiving myself that is how I can actually be my authentic self, and walk in tzniut with G-d.
Raizel Devorah:Right. And if I'm perceiving myself as really resonating with this beautiful pink top or this beautiful red scarf Yeah. Then that's okay. Yeah. And when we enter into this world of dress codes, everyone looks the same. Now that we've said all that we could say that's anti-tzniut.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm, that's anti-tzniut, what would that be? Not being aligned with yourself. Yeah. Not having
Raizel Devorah:the freedom not having permission to express your authentic creativity, your light, your energy. Yeah. But you have to all dress the same way.
Rebecca Sigala:but then why do people think that sexuality is like the opposite of that? Why is sexuality perceived as this dirty thing that, things that people like or take pleasure in is bad or wrong
Raizel Devorah:in the world in general, there's a fundamental misunderstanding about one's inherent worthiness and good enough and deserving of pleasure, period.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head. You could have gone so many different ways with answering that question. But I really deeply resonate with that on my own personal journey. And also with so many women that I see, really deserving of feeling good, deserving of pleasure, deserving of liking themselves, loving themselves. So many people just don't feel deserving of all of that.
Raizel Devorah:Right. And I guess that's the conversation of self-esteem, which is that self-esteem is energy of"same as" right? Mm-hmm. You can't be worse than or better than someone else. You just can't. Yeah. So it's the energy of same as, and what you see in the world, in the Westernized world in particular. Is this toxicity in the area of self-esteem? Like good luck meeting anyone who has very healthy self-esteem. Naturally. Yeah. Most people do a lot of work to get there. I once heard, someone say, that if everyone were to wake up and their self-esteem would be good, like everyone would wake up and that self-esteem issue would be erased,
Rebecca Sigala:That would be amazing..
Raizel Devorah:And the economy would shut down. Wow. Yeah. The drive to perform, to have performance spaces. Totally. And what is the whole conversation of, how I look and self-image is often other based esteem. so when someone's struggling with self-esteem, there's three, self remedies that they fall into. All of them are toxic. One is, performance based. Like, well, I'm good enough because I could run the fastest. I'm good enough because at work I am rising through the chain of whatever.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. It's all in comparison to other people.
Raizel Devorah:Right. Performance based. Another one is attribute based. It's what I have. So while I'm good enough because I have a lot of money or I'm good enough, and this could also be the area of self, image. I'm good enough because I look this way. But those people have a real crisis as you start aging, like Yeah. Crisis. Yeah. And the third one is other based. So you have, performance based, atrophy based and other based is I'm good enough because you say I am, but I rely on your warm regard towards the
Rebecca Sigala:external validation.
Raizel Devorah:Exactly. Exactly. And women are particularly prone to that one.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. Why is that?
Raizel Devorah:It's probably a lot to do with just the way the culture and society relates to men, women, men tend to be prone towards performance based. Yeah. Women tend to be prone towards other based, I would say both could be attribute based and you'll see a mix. Yeah. But I think it's a lot of how people are, to be other based for man. It's kind of seen as weak. Now we're circling back around the patriarchy.
Rebecca Sigala:Right, Because so much of what we've been told our worth is, is our bodies and our appearance. And if you are stuck in the diet culture, beauty standards of it all, that can only be validated by somebody else. Exactly. we're just chasing and waiting for other people to tell us we're enough.
Raizel Devorah:Exactly.
Rebecca Sigala:why is this so important with our connection with G-d? Like why is it holy? And something that comes to mind before you answer is just the idea that we're made in the image of G-d. Does that connect to all of this for you?
Raizel Devorah:Yes, very much so. And on the note of being made in the image of G-d, we have this idea of dvekut, which could be translated as clinging to G-d, but on a deeper look at it, it is taught as, moving closer to G-d through becoming more and more similar to G-d. So emulating G-d. Exactly. Emulating G-d, which gives a lot more common ground for us to feel that closeness. So, this clinging to G-d is a very important, life goal for many religious people. And I would actually leave out religion for many people, spiritual people. Yeah. You don't need religion to become very, very close to G-d. Yeah. And it facilitates it and it offers, depth and levels of it, but there are a lot of soul aligned people seeking this closeness. And what G-d did for us is he gave us the template of how to get over everything you need to get over that will get in your way of becoming closer with G-d. Mm-hmm. And that template is called marriage. Hmm. And I would say also just committed, really committed long-term relationships will have this too. To the degree that I can have a healthy relationship with myself, I could have it with a partner and to the degree that I could have it with my partner, I could have it with G-d. Yeah. So we can't live isolated. We need that to do our work.
Rebecca Sigala:Our relationship with ourself is mm-hmm. Directly correlated to how deep we can meet G-d.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah, a hundred percent. And so if somebody is in their own mind, their inner critic is so harsh about how they look, that it affects how they feel. Or their inner critic is telling them not to express their own sexuality or their own sensuality. Yeah. Then they hold back and aren't as authentic in their relationship with the other. Mm-hmm. And we can't rise to higher levels with G-d if we're not able to rise in higher levels of vulnerability and intimacy with the other.
Rebecca Sigala:Do you, find that this is a hard thing for women to admit that they're struggling with? I mean, for me, with body image, so many women, I'll be talking them, oh, I don't struggle with body image. And then, you know, five minutes later we'll be talking about something that they're struggling with directly correlated to body image. Maybe they don't see it exactly in the same way that I do.'cause I see body image so much more than your body size, let's say. and also with sexuality, when you were talking, you were saying, you know, if someone struggles with their inner critics so much that it affects how they feel. But I feel like everybody struggles with that. But there's a shame around even struggling with it.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. I think it ties into there's a shame in just being seen as struggling at all. But I find the, I think first in my position, the nature of my work is so deep and people know what they're coming for. And as they get to know me, they know more and more what's being offered. That it comes out at the right time.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. They're already willing to face those things when they're deciding to come to you.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah, and in my earlier years I was surprised how many women would bring up, how much they were struggling sexually or in their marriages. I'd be surprised at first. It took me a while to understand that it was most people and that's why people were bringing up. Yeah. And that actually set me off and I studied under various people over the years. It set me off to really pursue what is happening here from the Torah perspective. Like if, relationships and marriage are the most important thing, And I'm convinced that they are. Yeah. We could have more with G-d. Then why are most people reporting being dissatisfied Or distant or giving up what's going on?
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. there must be something specifically about our inner critic or our self image that is keeping us in relationship with ourselves and with our partners and that is bad.
Raizel Devorah:There is, it's back to that fundamental belief that I'm not good enough and I'm not lovable. It's those two lines. And when one learns to be inherently worthy and lovable, then everything frees up for them.
Rebecca Sigala:So true. Amen to that. how would someone embark on this journey if they're listening to us? Do you have any tips, any practical advice?
Raizel Devorah:Well, first and foremost, I would direct them to my site and your site because we both have
Rebecca Sigala:definitely,
Raizel Devorah:with all the years of practice and expertise, we both designed programs and courses to help people walk this. Yeah. 100%. I do have something that I work a lot with most people on that I think is really good for this conversation. It's a two step thing. The first step is when we hear the activation of our own inner critic and it's starting to just yap away of how we're not good enough or how we messed up. Often people take that and they let it right in. They become that they basically get pulled.
Rebecca Sigala:It becomes their identity,
Raizel Devorah:right. And then they have emotional reaction to it. So now they're in shame or now they're depressed, or now whatever. Self pity. Self pity. Exactly. And then more self criticism. Yep. So the first step is leaning in on that inner critic actually pushing back. And this is a skill. The more we practice it, the better we get at it till it becomes effortless and natural. So step one is to lean in and push back on that part of us. Step two is to activate self-compassion. And these are two things that I work a lot with on people. I suspect you do as well. Yes. They're not easy at first, but when we get those two and first we lean in on the inner critic because the inner critic is coming from a part of our inner child that's called the adaptive child. It's the part of you that adapted to whatever. It had to adapt to growing up. So that part of you actually thinks it's being helpful, however, yeah, it's a child.
Rebecca Sigala:And you think like before you become aware of this work or even the inner critic, you just think, this is how I think this is just right me.
Raizel Devorah:Right. This is me. Exactly. So when we realize that this is really a younger part of me, a part of me that adapted to survive, then we're leaning in on it from our wise adult, from the more mature, evolved part of us that's gathered wisdom as we've walked our journey. And that's also the part of us that we activate compassion from. So it's the leaning in and activating compassion. And what it's actually doing is it's saying to that part of us, I do hear you, and now I'm going to demote you cause I don't want you running the show
Rebecca Sigala:demote you. I like that.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. And that I would say to people is the, like the heart skill. If you get that, it'll take you so far.
Rebecca Sigala:Hmm. Because one step is the awareness and then there's the pushing back, and then it's like the demotion, Yeah. Where it's less of a, how would you describe it? What is the demoting?
Raizel Devorah:It's putting everything in its place. And it's giving power back to the part of me. And I bet that almost every woman you'll ever work with has this part of them that knows that there's so much beauty, so much beauty in them. But that part, that wise adult part gets taken over by that inner critic part. Right. So we wanna kind of balance things out and help ourselves step into wise adult.
Rebecca Sigala:Right. It's almost like, I mean, I see it with a lot of my clients where they know it logically. They wouldn't say, I don't deserve this, or there's something wrong with me or I'm not enough, even. Logically they know these things are not true a lot of the time. Maybe sometimes they don't, but most of the time they logically know those things are not true, but they don't feel it.
Raizel Devorah:Right. And this connects them to the part of them that knows is true.
Rebecca Sigala:Yeah. That's beautiful. Oh my gosh. I could listen to you talk forever, and I wish that we could go even deeper into all of these topics.
Raizel Devorah:Thank you. I love this and I love talking with you about it because it brings out so much and so much of this is, it's not just that it's so relevant. It's relevant with an urgency for women of today, for marriages of today.
Rebecca Sigala:Ugh, I feel that urgency, literally when you said it, it was like inside of me. I'm like, oh my gosh. I know. I want this out. I want women to hear this's.
Raizel Devorah:Yeah. When I said, it's holy work what you do.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm.
Raizel Devorah:that's what I feel. I feel like you're leading the fight.
Rebecca Sigala:Mm, thank you. That means so much to me. Wow. Thank you for having this conversation with me. I hope it's the beginning of many more,
Raizel Devorah:and thank you as well to you.
Rebecca Sigala:If you're still listening, I want to thank you so much for tuning into this beautiful conversation. I hope you're walking away feeling lit up, inspired, or maybe just a little bit more connected to yourself. And if you're ready to keep the momentum going, I want to share a couple different ways that you can dive deeper. The first way is learning more about Raizel Devorah and her amazing work. Be sure to check out the show notes. There's links there to her Patreon. Which is filled with soulful classes, meditations, and so much more, as well as her powerful podcast, Soul Talks, and I can vouch personally for both of these. They are absolutely incredible and have helped me on my own journey. If this episode stirred something in you around your relationship with your body, and you want to see yourself in a beautiful and honest light, and you want to step into your confidence and your power. Perhaps it feels right around the corner, but you're not exactly sure how to get there. I want to share a little bit with you about The New Sexy, my Mastermind, which is now open for pre-enrollment. It's a 12 week amazing program designed to help you feel radiant, confident, and sexy in your body exactly as it is. You'll also find the link in the show notes to book a free discovery call with me there where we can explore where you're at, where you're going, the steps that it might take to get there and see if we're a good fit to work together. Once you book a call with me, you'll see a short application so I can get to know you a little bit before we actually speak on the call. Right now. I'm also offering a three day masterclass called the Visibility Code, and this is specifically for entrepreneurs, which I've never done before. It's for women who have businesses and are ready to unlock their confidence and show up fully in their business so that they can bring in everything that's meant for them and fulfill their purpose in the world. You can always reach out to me directly at rebecca@rebeccasigala.com or come hang out with me on Instagram. I'd love to connect with you there. Until next time, sending you so much love and light. I'm so glad that you joined us today on the Body Image Revolution.